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From: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: what does it mean to talk to God [a brief attempt at an answer]
Message-ID: <423@cybvax0.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 20-Mar-85 23:13:35 EST
Article-I.D.: cybvax0.423
Posted: Wed Mar 20 23:13:35 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 23-Mar-85 00:07:16 EST
References: <893@topaz.ARPA> <2635@mcnc.UUCP> <660@pyuxd.UUCP> <4048@umcp-cs.UUCP> <711@pyuxd.UUCP> <5297@utzoo.UUCP>
Reply-To: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz)
Organization: Cybermation, Inc., Cambridge, MA
Lines: 28
Summary: 

In article <5297@utzoo.UUCP> laura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton) writes:
> ... Why do you [Rosen] reject subjective
> experiences out of hand like that? More importantly, why do you
> ``hunt them down and kill them'' :-) rather than just ignoring them
> as having no relevance to you?

Allow me to volunteer an answer.  Rich and I do not attack subjective
experiences: we attack claims of their significance.  Just as we attack
other fallacies of logic and argument.

Subjective experiences of the sorts you've described have been quite
relevant to me at times, and perhaps Rich also.  That doesn't mean they
are "true", except in a brief, emotional sense.  Most people who have
been in love can testify to the inaccuracy of their subjective experiences:
why should "religious" experiences be different?  Mine weren't.

These experiences can take on a commanding significance to us individually.
That we are helpless is no reason for anyone else to take them seriously.
Otherwise we should as readily follow David Berkowitz (aka Son of Sam) or
maybe Charles Manson.

These experiences are probably normal, as are dreams.  Taking someone
else's religious experience seriously is probably as significant as
taking their dreams seriously.  To claim that we should take your
religious experience seriously is a clear fallacy of argument.
-- 

Mike Huybensz		...decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh