Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decwrl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!harpo!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-nisysg!black From: black@nisysg.DEC Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Identity Message-ID: <1243@decwrl.UUCP> Date: Fri, 22-Mar-85 10:25:13 EST Article-I.D.: decwrl.1243 Posted: Fri Mar 22 10:25:13 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 23-Mar-85 03:36:06 EST Sender: daemon@decwrl.UUCP Organization: DEC Engineering Network Lines: 164 >Sounds like a good program. It would be nice if net.religion would >follow the example of this program. If instead of arguing endlessly >why religion X is wrong (or right), people on the net would summarize >their opinion on the religion issues. I don't think it is possible >to debate the "rightness" or "wrongness" of a religion or religions, >as different people, when they discuss religion, employ different logic >standards. I propose an alternative. Let each netter summarize his views on >this matter in a short article (long articles tend to be complicated). >I don't think we can convince each other, but we might have a better >chance of understanding each other. [Yosi Hoshen] I couldn't agree more, Yosi. It's rather hard to summarize Christian Identity into a neat package. It's even harder with people screaming "Nazi! Nazi! Nazi!" Sometimes things tend to degenerate into a p***ing contest. So let's cross the Rubicon. Basically, Identity Christians believe that: 1. The United States, based on scriptural reference and description, is the true Promised Land, the Land of Milk and Honey. 2. God knew of the future existance of the United States, since He is omniscient, and, after all, He created the planet, so He should know something about its geography. Christ, being God, obviously knew about it, too, although scripture does not specifically mention America. 3. Christ is not a Jew. (It's sometimes confusing to write about a Person Who exists for all time, but for a period in the past walked as a Man.) As Christ, the Man, He was born as a Galillean of the Israelite tribe of Judah. He followed the Israelite/Hebrew religious practices common to the area. He was sent not to the "Jews," but rather to the lost nations of Israel (one specific reference to this is in Luke 22, I believe.) 4. Christians are the direct descendants of the thirteen tribes of Jacob, whose name God changed to Israel. Now, the Bible usually refers only to TWELVE tribes of Israel. Jacob, of course, had twelve sons, one of whom was Joseph (with the coat of many colors). As Jacob was dieing, he put a special blessing on Joseph's two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, and rearranged the tribe of Joseph as a twin tribe (sort of like having twelve births, one of which is a set of twins, making thirteen children.) Further, at one point the tribe of Levi (the priests) are dispersed amongst the other twelve. 5. God dispersed the tribes because of their failure to trust Him, and their failure to obey His Laws. As part of their punish- ment, He told them they would forget who they were; they would lose their identity. He promised, though, that He would send to them a Light Who would show them the Way, and that through this Light they would know that they are the Children of God, and that they would know who they are, and that they would be known by a different name--His name! (CHRISTians) 6. America (which for our definition includes both the US and Canada) was founded by Christians who knew they were Israelites. They immediately made it perfectly clear that the new nation was founded only for Christian purposes. (Example: the Mayflower Compact.) The laws of the original colonies made it obvious that this was to be a Christian nation, and the original intent was that it would stay that way. The Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution of 1787 are all based on scriptural law. The Common Law accepted throughout the Nation is scriptural in origin. By comparison, most of the accepted financial policies in use today have their roots in ancient Babylon. This has been shown by secular archeologists. There is scriptural references to today's practices also. 7. Scriptural law, including but not limited to Mosaic Law, is binding upon the Israelites. Christ did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. What He destroyed was the "Traditions of the Elders," the ways of men practiced by the Pharisees. (Boy, did the Pharisees hate losing their strangle-hold on the people!) 8. As prophecied in Revelation (Apocalype), in the End Time Days, there will be a major battle between the forces of the Antichrist and the Christians. Mystery Babylon, the Red whore, will be destroyed starting from within. After a period of tribulation from which no Christian will escape, Christ will return in triumph to aid His Children Israel, and proclaim His Kingdom. 9. The Antichrist is anyone who is anti-Christ. Regarding the Jews, we believe: 1. They are the descendants of Esau, the Edomite, who sold his birthright for a bowl of beans. (Read scripture to find out the exploits of Esau.) These people eventually became known as the Canaanites, amongst others. Esau was very prolific. 2. At the time of Christ, these people were known as the Scribes and Pharisees. Christ had absolutely nothing good to say about them. In fact, He even identified them directly as the sons of Satan (in John 8 as I recall). 3. Irregardless of the proclaimation of Vatican II, St. Paul tells us that it was in fact the Jews who nailed Christ to the Cross. (It is a valid point of dicussion as to whether or not modern Jews still bear the responsibility for the Crucifixion. After all, the crime took place two millennia ago. Should the descendents of the criminals be held liable to punishment for crimes of their forefathers? Personally, I don't believe so.) In any event, if the Crucifixion were not to have taken place, we probably would not have Christianity. Christ had to die, and somebody had to kill Him. 4. Modern Jews are the descendents of the Pharisees, who Christ condemned. (Don't quote me, but I believe there is an explicit reference to this in the Jewish Encyclopedia of 1925, in which the Jewish author actually admits this. I personnally don't like to cite something unless I have a hard copy in my hands.) 5. The modern Jews, therefore, have no claim to being "Israelites." 6. However, scripture says there is salvation for all flesh that believes in Christ. 7. It would appear that the Talmud probably has its roots in the religious traditions of ancient pagan Babylon. Remember that the Israelites were in captivity in Babylon for a period of time, and many Israelites adopted the religion and practices of Babylon. Christ also condemned the "ancient traditions of men" that were practiced by the Pharisees. Do you see why the Jews hate Identity Christians with a purple passion? This is straight out of scripture, and the dispersion of the Lost Tribes and their migration to western Europe is backed up by archeology, history, and tradition. As I have stated previously, These are VALID religious concepts. They are recognized even by the IRS. And they really have no conflict with the theology of any established religion (Correction: any CHRISTIAN religion). Is it racist? Only mildly so. Is it Nazism? Well, take a look at who's calling it that. Is it "nice?" Maybe not. Is it true? That's up to the individual to decide, after all, it's still a free country, isn't it? Aren't we all committed to keeping it that way? Remember that in a free society, there will be the "Rich Rosens" and the "Don Blacks." If the middle cannot tolerate the ends, then we really don't have a free society, do we? Likewise, if the ends cannot tolerate the middle. Freedom of religion means just that. Freedom of speech means just that. To make it anything different would require a change in the Bill of Rights. And a change in the Bill of Rights invites armed rebellion (and that's a promise!). (By the way, for the Canadian readers, this is the type of material that Ernst Zundel was persecuted for.) Sleep well tonight. Don Black "Ayuh! Love New Hampsha" --Bumper sticker on a car from Massachusetts.