Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site oakhill.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!harpo!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!ut-sally!oakhill!davet From: davet@oakhill.UUCP (Dave Trissel) Newsgroups: net.religion.christian Subject: Re: Re: Church Discipline and Gay Christians Message-ID: <366@oakhill.UUCP> Date: Mon, 18-Mar-85 16:04:07 EST Article-I.D.: oakhill.366 Posted: Mon Mar 18 16:04:07 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 20-Mar-85 06:34:42 EST References: Reply-To: davet@oakhill.UUCP (Dave Trissel) Organization: Motorola Inc. Austin, Tx Lines: 96 Summary: In article <1315@akgua.UUCP> rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob]) writes: >Dave Trissel = >> >Bob Brown = > > >Gee Dave, You started out so nice.... > >>There seems to be many open minded Christians here on the net. ........... > >Then you started into fiction writing... > >>("whats wrong with these sinners! >>How can they let Satan decieve them so? They are so stupid! Can't they read >>the Bible?") > >My mouth started paining me from all those words you started stuffing >into it...... and my head...Wow you did a stuff job there too !! I pointed out the dilemma you probably face attending a gay church. What you quoted was only one of the responses possible. I did not indicate that would be *your* response and I'm sorry if it came out that way. However, too many Christians resort to the "logic" in the quotes (even in my family.) But my posting requested responses on how you interpret the fact that there are so many gay Christians and their churches. >>Somehow I get the feeling from the tone of your posting that you are not >>about to open yourself up to the possibility of gay Christianity. > >Obviously David your reading skills need some sharpening. I did NOT deny >that there are Gay Christians. I maintain that they are in rebellion >at the moment if they are not actively attempting to get free of it. And I quote the very start of your posting: "Whether one is or is not truly a Christian is known only absolutely by the Absolute Himself. However, those people who claim to be Christians and flout the obvious moral imparatives...are to be educated (gently) in their error first." This start with the word 'claim' does seem suspicious. You do later write "..brother and sister Christian continuing to lead a clearly sinful lifesyle..." Phrases like this certainly indicate you do not take well to the notion of gay Christianity, as I said. But this is all beside the point. The force of my response was in regarding gay Christians as being somehow in error, especially your attitude that they are misguided on the issue of homosexuality and you are not. I did make some comments concerning the fact that you haven't been around openly gay Christians, for they would have put these dilemmas to you before I have. Next I challenged you to meet the people you condemn. You rightly reply that your posting regarded "correcting" gays only within your own church. But I call you to reconsider your accusations in the first place since the damage they cause is harmful to a significant number of gay Christians, not just those in your own church. Next I challenged you to show where in the Bible it says a Christian must regularly attend church or otherwise prove your assertion that they "are heading for a hard fall or at least severely retarded spritual growth.." Then comes the question as to whether you would trust God to show you the truth regarding homosexuality if you did your own investigation through both prayer and thoughtful consideration, perhaps even attending a gay church. After you state "Gay lifestyles are clearly sinful for Christians" I challenged you to support your view. Romans 1 has been gone over before in earlier postings in this group. The next question I posed was of the "when did you choose to become a heterosexual" type. You indicated your reasons for thinking gays are free to decide their own sexual preference from those that you knew that 'switched sides' so to speak. I gave a different interpretation of your sample data plus pointed out the contradiction in there being gay churches in the first place. If God doesn't like Homosexuality, than why the gay churches? >Anyway, my frustration meter just registered in the red zone so I >give up. > I'm sorry my rhetoric offended you. The condescending attitude you have to those "clearly leading a sinful life" in your eyes certainly offends me. My big regret is for providing you such an easy out for ignoring the points I brought up in my posting. You have successfully responded without considering a single one. This is called avoiding the issues. Being open-minded means considering the points, not agreeing with them. I trust that my posting was at least "food for thought" for many on the net. Dave Trissel {seismo,ihnp4,gatech}!ut-sally!oakhill!davet