Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site aecom.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!unc!mcnc!philabs!aecom!teitz From: teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: After life Message-ID: <1302@aecom.UUCP> Date: Thu, 21-Mar-85 12:54:25 EST Article-I.D.: aecom.1302 Posted: Thu Mar 21 12:54:25 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 25-Mar-85 02:05:27 EST References: <240@npois.UUCP> <3780022@csd2.UUCP> <7386@rochester.UUCP> Organization: Albert Einstein Coll. of Med., NY Lines: 50 > This is the second reference to after life that I have seen recently in n.r.j . > This time it was even in capital letters! What my parents taught me, was that > we live on only in the memory of the people who knew us. This was also what > my hebrew school taught me though they also mentioned some other views. > I think maimonides said that there will be no reincarnation after the messiah > comes but things will continue as they were. This is in contrast to Judah Ha > Levi who believes that all Jews will be reincarnated in Israel at this time. > > Thus to my question: What is the normative view of after life in Judaism? > Does it differ between conservative and orthodox? Does it differ between > Sefardic and Ashkenazie? > Great caution must be exercised when discussing and researching these topics not to lump ideas together. The coming of the Messiah and the resurrection of the dead ( t'chiyat hameytim ) are not necessarily dependent on one another. As I recall, Rambam (Maionides), in a book he wrote specifically on the topic of resurrection ( the title escapes me ), which is different than reincarnation [ as I understand it, resurrection is the rising of the dead in the same for and bodies they had before, and reincarnation is rebirth in a different body at least, if not a different form ]. His, Rambam's, basic idea was the even after t'chiyat hameytim there would be life and death, meaning, those who were reborn would die again. This is where he differs from R. Yehuda HaLevi. There are many opinions of what will happen when mashiach comes. One point to remember, which will shed light on the whole concept of mashiach, is the story of R. Akiva and Bar Kochva. R. Akiva was of the impression that Bar Kochva was the messiah. Did R. Akiva really think Bar Kochva to be some super human being who would change the course of the world for eternity? No, Bar Kochva was a general who would lead the Jewish people back to their home- land and set up the monarchy again. It is obvious, to me at least, that very little of the way the world worked then would change. Why should it revert back to some previous state if mashiach would come today. To when would it revert. Back to the days of the Temple or all the way back to the Garden of Eden. Some rabbis, though, are of the opinion that there will be changes in the way the world works. The G'mara discusses that before mashiach comes, Eliyahu Hanavi will come to set the nation in order. This I can understand. Eliyahu Hanavi is a more suprenatural being than mashiach. He resides in the heavens ( according to the story in the Prophets ) and comes down to earth to do miracles. That he will do unnatural deeds I understand, but mashiach himself will be human as we are human. He will restart the Davidic monarchy ( and this will, hopefully, lead or come after, the unification of the entire Jewish nation ). There is much more to be written and at the momoent I don't have the time, but this should suffice to get the ball rolling. Eliyahu Teitz.