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From: info-mac@uw-beaver
Newsgroups: fa.info-mac
Subject: INFO-MAC Digest   V2 #24
Message-ID: <973@uw-beaver>
Date: Fri, 29-Mar-85 22:03:54 EST
Article-I.D.: uw-beave.973
Posted: Fri Mar 29 22:03:54 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 31-Mar-85 02:37:02 EST
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Organization: U of Washington Computer Science
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From: Moderator John Mark Agosta <INFO-MAC-REQUEST@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>


INFO-MAC Digest         Saturday, 30 Mar 1985      Volume 2 : Issue 24

Today's Topics:
                          Saddle desk accessory
                        Source code for 'Saddle'
                          Comments on ExperLogo
                      Applebus Developer's Handbook
                       cheap 300/1200 baud modems
             Want info about digitial speech input to a Mac
                     MacIntosh monitor and headaches


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wednesday, 27 March 1985 16:43:04 EST
From: Thomas.Newton@cmu-cs-spice.arpa
Subject: Saddle desk accessory

'Saddle' is a desk accessory which draws saddle-like patterns in its
window.  I adapted it from a program that one of my officemates had
running on a PERQ.  It doesn't work very well from inside the Finder;
apparently the Finder does not call SystemTask (the source of DA
cycles) very often.  However, it does run at a reasonable speed from
inside BinHex, FEdit, etc.

This message contains the accessory, in .HQX-encoded D.A.M. format, 
and the next message contains the source code, written for Megamax C 
(version 2.0, mixed-case toolbox names).
  (Note: these files have already been posted to net.sources.mac; 
there's no need to forward them.)

                          -- Thomas.Newton@cmu-cs-spice.ARPA

[The encoded version is in da-saddle.hqx -jma ]

------------------------------

Date: Wednesday, 27 March 1985 16:47:34 EST
From: Thomas.Newton@cmu-cs-spice.arpa
Subject: Source code for 'Saddle'

This is the source code for the Saddle desk accessory, written for 
Megamax C version 2.0 (mixed-case toolbox names).  See my previous 
message for details.  [ This has been archived as
<info-mac>da-saddle.c -jma ]

(It has already been posted to net.sources.mac, so there is no need to
forward it.)

------------------------------

Date: 27 Mar 85  1851 PST
From: Fred Lakin <FRD@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Comments on ExperLogo

Gayle Curtis writes:

We've been using ExperLogo for a few weeks now, primarily as a
sketching tool for designing user-interface scenarios in a
process-control application.  (and I've been having a great time
working with the package):

1.  The working environment is very easy to get along with, providing
a 'Listener window for immediate execution of single-line expressions
and for monitoring system output.

2.  Multiple 'Edit-Buffer windows are supported; each may be
independently scrolled, resized, etc., and it seems you can have as
many on-screen as you can bear to look at. Chunks of code can be moved
between editbuffers and the Listener Window.

3.  'Graphic windows co-exist with the text windows and all together
they can offer a blow-by-blow view of program execution.  Very handy.

4.  In addition to the 2D 'Bunny graphics, which act a lot like turtle
graphics, ExperLogo offers both 3D (pitch, roll, yaw) and spherical
(2D mapped onto a sphere) graphics.  All these graphics are created by
"relative geometry" commands, e.g.,"forward 60 right 45,..." etc.

5.  The graphics run fast enough to do what you might call "simple
animation."

6.  A large set of the builtin Mac Quickdraw functions are available,
and we've been finding it quicker to mock-up Quickdraw graphics using
ExperLogo than going through the Pascal Workshop.  More QD is to be
available on the next release.

7.  We're running on Lisa under MacWorks.  Version 'C of Macworks
alleged to be required. Version 'B will get you up, but may induce
bugs.

8.  Problems we've had:

 a. Copy-protection/validation scheme doesn't seem to work on our system,
    and as a result we need to insert the Master diskette everytime we fire-up
    the ExperLogo system, for validation.  This isn't too bad,though, because
    every ExperLogo source file you've got is accessible from within
    the editor.

 b. At first, we'd get really unreasonable error conditions, like
    functions not taking variables as argments when they should, etc.
    I've taken to throwing away the "StdEnv" file and forcing
    regeneration, at the first sign of trouble, and most problems have
    gone away.  This procedure is outlined in an addendum to the manual.

 c. A related problem had to do with apparent memory limitations.
("Not enugh
    memory....Better save your work.")  This problem is related to the
    Standard Environment condition, and also a function of the size of
file
    you're trying to compile.  Suggestion from ExperTelligence was to
run
    the file in smaller chunks.  Tried it and it worked.  Only a
problem on
    very large files.

9.  Error messages are cryptic and do not refer to line numbers (there
being none), though it will tell you which function the error occured
in.  This was annoying at first, but now it's manageable.

10 Other features: many LISP functions, some documented and some not
...
        car - first, cdr - butfirst, append - (not doc), nconc -
nconc,
        funcall - funcall, apply - apply, apropos - apropos,
        cons - (not doc), putprop - pprop, get - gprop, assoc -
findkey ...

    If you do APROPOS << and return, where << is their special left
string
        quote, the whole symbol table is listed with many funs not
        mentioned in the documentation

    NB - they overloaded some of the list processing funs to work on
strings
         and atoms also (standard logo?)

11. Next release to be out April 15 should have more Quickdraw, as
mentioned above, sound, and serial I/O .

12. I can highly recommend ExperLogo as a rapid development tool,
especially in applications where the "mockup & iterate" cycle must
happen fast.


Gayle Curtis, 493-5000 x4482

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 85 06:32:07 pst
From: (Mike O'Dell[x-csam]) mo@lbl-csam
Subject: Applebus Developer's Handbook

I bought one of these for $75 expecting it to be either (1) complete
or (2) updated in a timely manner consistent with products being 
announced.  It is neither, and I am more than a bit chapped about it.
It is very hard to convince management to undertake building products 
for a product line which is, for development purposes as far as we can
assertain, unsupported.  I know this is not the case, since people are
announcing AppleTalk products, but there seems to be a grave disparity
between the support seen by different potential product developers.

I have tried to contact various people at Apple, and finally 
inadvertently got vectored to someone who sent me copies of the pages 
which shortly came with the next IM Supplement.  While this isn't the
protocol specifications I expected to see in ABDH, I do thank her for 
that courtesy because it is the only one I have seen extended.  It 
goes without saying that my phone calls to the reputedly-correct
people go unreturned.

This really isn't the province of the group, except for wondering out
loud how anyone else is convincing their managers to commit money and
people to AppleTalk products?

        -Mike

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 85 01:49:12 pst
From: Bob Cralle <cralle@lll-crg.ARPA>
Subject: cheap 300/1200 baud modems

Why not buy a PROMETHEUS PROMODEM for $339 at SGC Fremont, CA
415/791-7091 & have the best? Comes with MAC PAK--modem to mac cable &
Promodem_M, not so hot, in that it doesnt simulate a VT100, but is
there a better modem? You download the manual updates from a BBS. Also
has nifty options: 64k buffer for storing msgs. going or coming; sent
or received in the nite (anytime), etc.

They advertise in Micro Times.

No I don't work for...da dah da dah.................

------------------------------

Date: 27 Mar 1985 16:23-EST
Sender: WEINSTEIN@BBNG.ARPA
Subject: Want info about digitial speech input to a Mac
From: WEINSTEIN@BBNG.ARPA

Does anyone know anything about getting digital speech input into a
Macintosh?  I would be particularly interested in any special devices
for this purpose available for the Mac, or pre-packaged 
general-purpose devices which produce serial output in RS-232 or 
RS-422 compatible form which could be fed directly into the Mac's 
serial port.  I do not particularly care what digitilization scheme is
used (PCM, ADPCM, Delta, or whatever) -- just as long as I can
interface it easily and it is fairly inexpensive (i.e., under around
$1000)

------------------------------

Date: Wed 27 Mar 85 16:52:26-PST
From: Lee Altenberg <ALTENBERG@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
Subject: MacIntosh monitor and headaches

I find that there is something about the MacIntosh monitor that gives
me headaches very quickly once I start working at one.  I have never
experienced this with any other monitors, VT100, Datamedia, Lisa, etc.
Does any one know 1) What unique properties the Mac monitor may have,
in terms of refresh
        pattern, frequency, etc.?  2) Whether any of the above
parameters can be modified?  3) If anyone else has had similar
experiences?

------------------------------

End of INFO-MAC Digest
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