Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site fortune.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!fortune!brower From: brower@fortune.UUCP (Richard Brower) Newsgroups: net.religion,net.motss Subject: Re: another Egypt Message-ID: <5163@fortune.UUCP> Date: Mon, 1-Apr-85 15:05:43 EST Article-I.D.: fortune.5163 Posted: Mon Apr 1 15:05:43 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 2-Apr-85 06:13:23 EST References: <5127@fortune.UUCP> <494@teklds.UUCP> Reply-To: brower@fortune.UUCP (Richard brower) Distribution: net Organization: Fortune Systems, Redwood City, CA Lines: 67 Xref: watmath net.religion:6429 net.motss:1564 Summary: In article <494@teklds.UUCP> larryg@teklds.UUCP (Karen Clark) writes: >There seems to be some contradictions in your points Richard. >Egypt was slavery, bondage, and God did not bring His people out >to be what they would be or "I am what I am".. That was God's name, >not ours. Anyone who continues in sin or the flesh, is a slave to >such. Not allowing people to live to their full potential, by restricting their choices, is keeping them in slavery and bondage. >What did God do when He led them out of Egypt to the promised land? >The first thing He did was set down some LAWS and COMMANDMENTS!!! >Rules and regulations. Restrictions. Then He killed the ones >who disobeyed. If you are going to use the story, use the complete >story. That is not quite true. He did not allow the "ones who disobeyed" to enter the "promised land", He did not kill them out of hand as some of the more right wing Christians propose to do to gays. The commandments he gave then have no mention of homosexuality (read the 10 commandments again). >The law came to show us our sin. Our wickedness, our bent toward evil. >In Galatians you can read (and Romans) about how freedom is not freedome >to do as we please, but to be Holy and to do what is the most excellent >thing. However the ongoing theme of the Gosples is that the Law is Love and Love is Holy. You have distorted this position. >Let me ask you this question. IF Jesus asked you to give up >Homosexuality, or at least the practice, would you do it? Is there >anything you would not give up or do for Him? As I have stated previously, several times, *I* am *not* a Christian. My understanding of God, although heavily influenced by the Christian Bible, has very little in common with traditional Christianity. I may write an article at some point in the future detailing my religious beliefs, but let it suffice for the moment that my perception of the value of Jesus Christ is His teaching that loving ones neighbors in a positive manner (that is to say, in an active manner) is the only earthly method of showing ones real "love of God". Therefore, I find it unbelievable that He would ask me to give up loving Steven, since this would be a distinct contradiction of his message. >I must ask myself this question and if there is, well, let's build >a statue and shrine because we will have discovered our god. >I do not fear you, but I can not call you brother, for you are not of >the same Spirit. Then you do not understand the "Spirit" as I do either. By stating that I am not your "brother" and that I am not of the "same Spirit" you are being rather judgemental. As I recollect, Jesus taught that all men are "brothers" (all people are children of God), not just Jews (there were no Christians at that time). This seems to indicate that although you call yourself a Christian, you think that Jesus was a liar. Is that the case? >If we say that we have no sin, we lie and do not the truth ( I John) I have not made any statement of the sort that I do not not sin. However, my sins are between me and my God, and have nothing to do with you. Make sure you do not have a log in your eye before you start trying to pick the mote out of mine. -- Richard A. Brower Fortune Systems {ihnp4,ucbvax!amd,hpda,sri-unix,harpo}!fortune!brower