Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 exptools; site ihuxf.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!ihuxf!russ From: russ@ihuxf.UUCP (Russell Spence) Newsgroups: net.religion,net.politics Subject: Don Black, Nazis, and the amazing disappearing Holocaust Message-ID: <2580@ihuxf.UUCP> Date: Tue, 26-Mar-85 23:34:17 EST Article-I.D.: ihuxf.2580 Posted: Tue Mar 26 23:34:17 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 28-Mar-85 00:15:51 EST Distribution: net Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 85 Xref: watmath net.religion:6317 net.politics:8244 Oddly enough, some of the Don Black "Nazism" articles have slipped past my admittedly liberal 'n' key finger. I've been thinking about such things lately and would like to put in my 2 cents worth. I had heard of Zundle and the others who claim that the holocaust never happened, quite a while ago. I tend to think that these people are just admirers of Hitler and the Nazis who don't have enough guts to fess up to the actions of the Nazis. Actually, having just finished reading *Mein Kampf* I would have been disappointed if Hitler HADN'T tried to kill all of the Jews. Was Hitler wrong in killing the Jews? Well, history has already made that judgement, he lost the war. Therefore, even by his standards he can be judged a failure and in the wrong. Is he wrong JUST because he exterminated 6 million Jews? That one is tougher. Sure the simple answer is that genocide is evil and since Hitler tried to kill all of the Jews, he is evil too. This is a very nice and simple answer. It has the added benefit that it removes from the listener any responsibility to THINK. However, the truth is that the issue of the phenomena of Nazism is much more complex and still deserves more objective study. What pisses me off is that since Hitler did commit this "atrocity", people use that as an excuse to remove their own guilt for things that they did during the war. Hey, how about a little quiz? Which country is the only country to use atomic weapons on fellow human being? What is the name of the country that in World War II fire-bombed Dresden for three day when it knew that Dresden didn't have any significant war industry? Which "freedom-loving" country suspended the civil rights of a group of citizens simply because ethnically they were of Japanese origin? Of course people will say, "Oh, but look what Hitler did to the Jews!!". This makes me sick. Does that make what we did right? I think that you all know the answer to that. But, my, isn't it ironic that the people who have gotten the most mileage out of the holocaust are the Jews? They got their own state out of it and the support of the United States since it's creation. And, my, look at all of the wonderful things that they have done in Lebanon and the Middle East in general! But hey, you can't criticize them. Oh, no, look what Hitler did to them. The U.S. withdraw support!! No, we can't do that, look at all the problems they've had! Personally I have alot more respect for Hitler and the Nazis than I do for the Jews. The Jews were just victims. At least the Nazis had ideals for which they willing to fight and die for and yes even commit "atrocities" for. Which of the three do you think takes more courage? But isn't it so much easier to close your eyes, condemn the Nazis (who will argue with you?) and pretend that Hitler was insane? --------------------- [The following is reprinted without permission from the Chicago Tribune. "Our 'good neighbors'" by Peter Gorner. Feb. 17, 1985] Romanian Orthodox Bishop Viorel Trifa...had been a leader of the viciously anti-semitic Romanian fascist Iron Guard and as a newspaper editor in Bucharest, had incited his countrymen to the 1941 riot in which Jewish men, women and children where skinned alive and left hanging on meat hooks in a slaughterhouse. Before being deported to Portugal last year, Trifa complained to the press that he was a victim of the times. "The point was to revive the Holocaust," he said, "But all this talk by the Jews about the Holocaust is going to backfire - against the Jews. Something," he says darkly, "will be done." Such a telling response is unusual, Ryan says. Most of the people he prosecuted have admitted to nothing. The lack of contrition, he says, began to haunt him in 1981 when he proved that John Demjanjuk, a Cleveland automaker, was in truth "Ivan the Terrible," the infamous Ukrainian sadist who manned the pumps for the Nazi gas chamber at the Treblinka killing camp. "He was absolutely impassive in court," Ryan says, "His family didn't know about his past. They were being tortured every day. The evidence was over- whelming. I was looking for some sign... some acknowledgement... some conscience. But there was nothing. "Demjanjuk was not special, no more unique than a cockroach. But the Nazi attitude he represents is significant. In his smug silence he was telling us something: 'I did it once and got way with it. I won't explain how or why, for if I did, you might understand it a little better than you did before and learn how to recognize it better when it rears its head again.'" -- Russell Spence (new path ->) ihnp4!ihuxf!russ AT&T Technologies Naperville, IL