Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site dciem.UUCP Path: utzoo!dciem!mmt From: mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: Economic Issues -- Reply to Taylor Message-ID: <1495@dciem.UUCP> Date: Sat, 30-Mar-85 17:22:45 EST Article-I.D.: dciem.1495 Posted: Sat Mar 30 17:22:45 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 30-Mar-85 20:08:58 EST References: Reply-To: mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) Organization: D.C.I.E.M., Toronto, Canada Lines: 61 Summary: In response to a posting of mine critiquing some of the control-theoretical issues in DKMcK's postings, he issued a response with more UPPER-CASE than I have seen from him. I guess that his ice is a little thin, so I apologize for hitting where it might hurt. >I WOULD NOW LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT *ALL* OF THE ABOVE ARGUMENTS USED BY >MARTIN TAYLOR ARE STRAW-MEN ARGUMENTS! I leave it to the reader to assess >Mr Taylor's integrity. It is not possible to go through all of DKMcK's book-full of articles, because I don't keep them, but "*ALL*" of the so-called straw-man issues are: the need for equilibrium conditions in establishing a non-inflationary full-employment economy, and the need for full information in order that individuals may produce/price things rationally. These are the two issues on which McK challenges my integrity. My errors I can acknowledge, but my integrity I defend. I have never read the "Austrian School" so often referenced by DK, but I don't need to do so in order to know that complex feedback systems are always unstable in the presence of time delays. I agree with McK that the oscillations eventually damp out, if only by reaching limiting amplitudes (e.g. nuclear winter). The equations with which DK "proved" there would be no inflation do not include phase effects, but are predicated on the underlying assumption that the differentials in the several terms propagate their effects instantaneously (and if they don't, different equations are required to take the phase shifts into account). someone McK accused of slighting the intelligence of farmers was in fact claiming they needed information they couldn't get. McK argues that current price is enough information. But decisions must be made long in advance of the information provided by current price, and so farmers need not be stupid in order to be unable individually to project the collective effect of their decisions. I don't think my arguments were straw men. They could be wrong, but DKMcK will have to do better than using UPPER-CASE to shoot them down -- such as learn a bit of control theory or perhaps psychology. > The analyses put forward by DKMcK are fun to read, > >Well, I'm glad for that; I always worry about them being too dry. > >> but I seldom feel >>they have much to do with the real world, or even with a contrived >>world that contains real people and real information systems. > >It's a (sort of) free country, and you can 'feel' that the sun is blue if >you wish. > Back later, > DKMcK As it happens, I really have seen a blue sun! If you don't believe it, look at the Scottish newspapers around the early (I think) summer of 1950 or 51. Blue suns can be real, but they are as rare as the effective application of pure maths to social situations. -- Martin Taylor {allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt {uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsri!dciem!mmt