Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site scgvaxd.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!unc!mcnc!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!trwrb!scgvaxd!dan From: dan@scgvaxd.UUCP (Dan Boskovich) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Black's ravings (comment about Sodom) Message-ID: <285@scgvaxd.UUCP> Date: Mon, 25-Mar-85 17:53:14 EST Article-I.D.: scgvaxd.285 Posted: Mon Mar 25 17:53:14 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 28-Mar-85 00:13:26 EST References: <863@ames.UUCP> <365@oakhill.UUCP> Reply-To: dan@scgvaxd.UUCP (Dan Boskovich) Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA Lines: 101 Summary: In article <365@oakhill.UUCP> davet@oakhill.UUCP (Dave Trissel) writes: >From: mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) > >> The verb "know" is the typical KJV euphemism for "have sex". ... > >From: teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) > >> The word used in the Bible ( Hebrew version ) is literally, and >> we will know them. The word to "know" is used to mean sexual relations >> in other places ( Genesis Ch. 4, verse 1 - And Adam knew Eve his wife, >> and she conceived and bore Cain ). > >From: rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob]) > >> P.S. The word "know" in the earlier English translations used in >> this fashion usually means sexual relations. > >Do erroneous statements such as these represent the typical Christian's >understanding of God's word? > >First of all the hebrew verb "to know" used >in the text on Sodom in Genesis 19 occurs 943 times in the Old Testament. In >only ten of these occurrences does it have the sense of carnal knowledge. The >Greek translations use an expression equivalent to "making the aquaintance of" >or "becoming familiar with" which is in marked contrast to the verbs employed >in reference to Lot's daughters which clearly refer to sexual behavior. >(I would put both Hebrew and Greek versions here but USENET is not as >powerful as my Macintosh :-) ) > >Jesus himself refers to Sodom implying that inhospitality was its undoing >(Matt. 10:14-15, Luke 10:10-12.) Ezekiel not only lists the sins of Sodom > "pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness.. neither did >she strengthen the hand of the poor and the needy" (16:48-49 KJV) but contends >that they are less serious than the sexual sins of Jerusalem. >Ecclesiasticus says God abhorred the Sodomites for their pride (16:8). > Let me clear this up once and for all! The Hebrew word translated "know" or "knew" is "yadah", which means an "intimate relationship". True, it is only used in the context of sex a relatively few amount of times. It also is used to describe the relationship between God and Abraham. The key to understanding what the word is referring to is obviously context. The men of Sodom said to Lot, "Send the men out here so that we may "know" them. Now, this cannot mean that they wanted to get to know them better and start a close friendship with them, because Lot replied, Please do not do such an evil thing! There is nothing evil about cultivating a friendship. Second, The men could not have wanted to beat them up, or mug them, because the word "yadah" would have been inapropiate, as it means an intimate relationship. Third, if the men would have been guilty of unhospitality, they would have been in their homes minding their own business, not congragating in front of Lot's home to see the visitors. So finally, the conclusion would have to be that they wanted to use the visitors sexually. Now Lot did not exercise wisdom here, granted. It is obvious that Lot was a compromised man. He called the men of Sodom "friends". He lived there in the midst of all the sin going on there. He had grown so used to sin that he was willing to compromise. This is why it is so important for a church to discipline sin. Sin is like cancer. Its grows and grows. Before long Gods own people begin to tolerate it. Lot was willing to give up his daughters virtue hoping to satisfy the sexual hunger of the men of Sodom. The men would have nothing to do with them, however! The absence of homosexuality on a listing of sins of Sodom does not mean that it wasn't among them. Sodom was guilty of many sins. There character was one of rebellion illustrated by their failure to repent even after inflicted with judgment (blindness). The sins of Jerusalem would be greater because they were guilty of Apostasy! They had received the Law, they had a covenant with God, and they had the greater revelation, but they rejected it. They were guilty of spiritual pride and apostasy. Same principle as below! Jesus did not say the sin of Sodom was unhospitality. He was saying that the judgement of Sodom would not be as great as these cities because their sin was greater than Sodoms. That is, to see, hear, and experience Jesus Christ, and then to reject Him. The only sin that will keep a man out of the Kingdom of God, is the sin of rejecting the saviour. This illustrates Gods perspective on Sin. All have sinned and missed Gods mark! God makes men new creations. For those of you who profess to be Christians and are Gay, remember that Romans teaches of the old man who died with Christ, and has been raised from the dead in the newness of Life. All of us struggle with sin, but there is NO CONDEMNATION to those who are in Christ (Rom. 8:1) and if any man sins we have an advocate with the Father (John 1:9). But TRUE repentance is to surrender ALL to Him. Christ said that not all who call me Lord will be with me in the Kingdom! Make sure you don't just CALL Him Lord, but that He IS TRULY Lord of your WHOLE life! Paul said, "Examine yourselves, to determine whether or not you are truly in the Faith." Dan