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From: brower@fortune.UUCP (Richard Brower)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: Reply to Dave Trisell
Message-ID: <5166@fortune.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 1-Apr-85 19:05:26 EST
Article-I.D.: fortune.5166
Posted: Mon Apr  1 19:05:26 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 2-Apr-85 08:20:22 EST
References: <218@cvl.UUCP>
Reply-To: brower@fortune.UUCP (Richard brower)
Distribution: net
Organization: Fortune Systems, Redwood City, CA
Lines: 63
Summary: 

In article <218@cvl.UUCP> david@cvl.UUCP (David Harwood) writes:
>	The homosexuals I have met during this time have almost 
>without exception been pretty unhappy, with very poor physical 
>and psychological health, this often according to their own account.

The fact thet homosexuals have been rather unhappy could, on the other
hand, be related to the fact that US society has had a very oppressive
atmosphere to gays.  It is, I state from personal experience, rather
hard to be very happy when all of your neighbors are calling for your
death, imprisonment, or worse.  Don't try to deny that "queer bashing"
has been a popular sport in the US.  And "bashed" gay people were/are
reluctant to report such crimes to the police... when a gay person goes
to the police to report a crime it is just as likely that they will have
another crime committed against them.  If their community found them out
they were likely to lose their job and home.

>is that homosexuality was not accepted, or even common, among the Jews
>of that time. It was scandalous. Absolutely condemned by religious
>tradition.
>	Then you ask why did not Jesus say something against it.
>Paul did plainly say something against it, despite the far-fetched
>interpretations of Boswell. Recall that Paul was addressing Romans
>and Greeks (Corinthians), not Jews.
>	What about Jesus? First of all, as I've already observed, homo-
>sexuality was not accepted or common among the Jews, no matter whether
>it was accepted by the Emporer or other Gentiles of the time. It was
>absolutely condemned (by stoning). Jesus preached to the Jews, not to
>the Gentiles, and he criticized their hypocrisy, not that of the others-- 
>they (Jews) were ones who should know better. To begin with, it is very
>probable that Jesus never came across a persecuted homosexual Jew, there
>were so few.

Stoning was only done for a very few and specific acts.  As far as I have
been able to determine homosexuality was not one of these.  If you have
other information please define its source (chapter and verse of the
Bible will be sufficient).  By all of the studies, 6% to 15% of all men
are homosexual *irreguardless of race, religion, or time in history*.
Thus your above arguement is bogus horseshit.

>	As for his other attitudes about sexuality, they are very clear.
>First, he says marriage may interfere with ministry, but does not insist

You seem to be confusing Jesus and Paul (Saul) here.

>	The most revealing thing Jesus says, quoting scripture in Genesis,
>is that man and woman were made by God for each other, therefore, no man
>should break this bond (marriage). You may draw your own conclusion about
>his tacit presuppositions, if you are sincere.

I've never been married to a woman.  Does this mean that I shouldn't break
up with my lover of five years.

>	There is no room for the persecution of anyone, especially of
>those who suffer. This is what the Gospel teaches. But there is no
>recommendation of homosexuality either; it is clear that Jesus accepted
>the Jewish tradition that men and women were made for each other according
>to the purpose of God. However, he rejected the merciless cruelty shown to 
>sinners, who after all were suffering anyway, and who might come to
>repentance if only we were more merciful, as God would have us be.

-- 
Richard A. Brower		Fortune Systems
{ihnp4,ucbvax!amd,hpda,sri-unix,harpo}!fortune!brower