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From: david@cvl.UUCP (David Harwood)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: reply to Laura Creighton
Message-ID: <249@cvl.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 3-Apr-85 15:26:57 EST
Article-I.D.: cvl.249
Posted: Wed Apr  3 15:26:57 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 7-Apr-85 06:20:02 EST
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In reply to a reply
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>From: laura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: reply from Laura Creighton to David Harwood
Message-ID: <5381@utzoo.UUCP>

I think that you miss my point. Given that the Christianity is true, it
isn't until the time of Abraham that anyone got to hear exactly what
God wanted. WHat about all the people who suffered before that time?
What about the suffering in Africa, Australia, and North America? Am I
to believe that gernerations of people suffered and died pointlessly
until Christians arrived at these places, at which point it became
the Christians fault? And all the while there is a God who could either
stop the suffereing, or at any rate explain teh purpose of the suffering
who does nothing?  I find this notion rather difficult to reconcile with the
notion that God is merciful.

Laura Creighton
utzoo!laura
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
	I may not have a satisfactory answer for you. I have simply
said that we are largely responsible for others suffering, whether one
believes there is God or not. Suffering itself is not evil; rather it is
our failure to do anything about it that is evil. As for the purpose
of suffering, it may be related to our creation in the image of God
as autonomous moral beings. It is hard to imagine moral agency without
a consciousness, at least a racial memory, of suffering and evil. On
the other hand, it seems to be an amazing fact of our nature that we 
do become better human beings through our experience of suffering.
	Your question seems to be why does not God not do something
about suffering when we are unaware or unable? Of course, most of the
people who have ever lived are living now, so in our times of
information and technological power, almost all suffering is due to 
our neglect, in principle. 
	I never said that only Christians are responsible for suffering,
although I said that we are hypocritical more than others if we do not
do as Jesus did. Jesus unequivocally answered the question, Am I my
brother's keeper? in the parable of the Good Samaritan. Also, while
Abraham is the prototype of those who have faith in the one, true God,
known certainly by His self-revelation, even the Bible, which is not
a literally scientific account, says that there were righteous men in
every age. My point is that, no matter our beliefs, God has created us
as potentially compassionate beings, whose individual and racial
consciousness is increasing and perfectable. We may recieve a new
revelation when we are prepared for it, nevertheless we were always
potentially compassionate.
	But this evades your real question, I suppose, which may have
two parts. First, why does not God do something about suffering when
we do not, although we know about it? If we are evil, then is He?
All I can say is that if God does what we do not, then we are not
relatively autonomous, acting according to our own natures. Even, we
would be compelled to religion which we did not desire. (I might
add that God does do something about suffering through us, since we have
been created.)
	Secondly, why does not God do something about suffering when
we do not, if we do not know about it? It seems that pain and suffering
are given facts, as is death. The only other thing I can say is that
if He acts so to end suffering, outside of our cooperation, then there
is no suffering, we would not have our status as moral beings. But this
seems to be inherent to the purpose of our creation in the image of God.
	Paul says that all creation, as in childbirth, groans until the 
sons of God be revealed.
	It is merciful of God to have created us at all, and with the
divine spark of compassion which makes it possible for us to be redeemed.
We might not exist, or we might as well be dead in an uncaring world.

					David Harwood