Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site ames.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!hao!ames!barry From: barry@ames.UUCP (Kenn Barry) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Re: If the shoe fits... Message-ID: <920@ames.UUCP> Date: Mon, 8-Apr-85 00:37:09 EST Article-I.D.: ames.920 Posted: Mon Apr 8 00:37:09 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 9-Apr-85 03:40:02 EST References: <1214@decwrl.UUCP> <900@ames.UUCP> <224@osu-eddie.UUCP> Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA Lines: 99 From georgia (osu-eddie!glp): >> - From the Crow's Nest - Kenn Barry >> >> Net.religion has echoed again and again with the pained cries >> of Christians who insist that the Crusades, the Inquisition, etc., are >> not examples of *real* Christianity. Well, my friends, we now have Mr. >> Black as a contemporary example of the kind of thinking (and I use the >> term loosely) which led to these atrocities. If you want to show the >> rest of us that these attitudes play no part in your religion, Mr. Black >> has given you an excellent opportunity. If not, that's your privelege, >> but, please, don't act so surprised when you're then lumped in with the >> "Kill for Christ" Christians. Consider, also, that it's *your* religion >> being dragged through the gutter by Black's diatribes; why should the >> rest of us make a distinction, if you are unwilling to do so? > > Okay you want Christians to speak up. You are full of sh*t. There is >no Eleventh Commandment and I know of very few Christians who behave in the >manner you present. And if the ones you know do, why are you lumping the >rest of us with them anyway. Pardon me if I say that your ideas suck out >the ass and then some. .... >Probably most of the people who still read it don't >care to post for fear that you will find something wrong with what they say >(as I am sure you will with my stuff. But since I probably won't read any >followups, I don't really care). Now, why on Earth would you think I'd "find something wrong" with an enlightened response like yours? :-} Actually, I've been rather relieved to note that a number of Christians *have* seen fit to respond to Black's lunacy in the manner it deserves. I wish I *could* claim credit for that, but the real credit goes to those Christians who realized that Black went beyond the normal moronic flaming, and were unwilling to let his pernicious ideas pass themselves off as Christian. And secondary credit to Rosen and others who've been a lot more vocal than me. By the way, suggesting an Eleventh Commandment was hardly an insult; Tim Maroney thought I was being too generous (or at least inaccurate) in suggesting such an innocuous reason for the silence. >Yes "Christians" have done some pretty awful things. >So have most other religions and for that matter most other governments >(since your examples are things that came from organized "Christian" >governments). I am not giving that as an excuse. I am simply pointing out >that if you choose to lump me in there then you are being very unfair. Actually, the Inquisition originated within the Church, not with a government. In any case, reread what I wrote: I did not say that I lumped Christians together, I said that history will lump the silent with the approving. > I don't know the reasons that others had for not answering but I >personally only read this group when I want to be amused. So it is usually >only at the begining of the quarter. I used to read it alot but I got tired >of messages like yours. I did not expect every Christian on the net to respond to Black. I *was* bothered that many Christians who've already shown they have a lot to say in this forum about everything *else*, had nothing to say about Black. I'm even more bothered when you and others seem more interested in flaming those who have raised Black's postings as an issue, than Black, himself. > No one would say anything about the number of Non-Christians who >didn't post followups if some weird screwed-up Atheist insisted that all >Christians be shot at dawn if not before. Most people would just accept the >fact that guys like that don't represent Non-Christians as a whole and leave >it at that. Black presents his nonsense as Christian. If I *were* a Christian I'd be even more sickened by his stuff than I am, anyway. >They wouldn't say that any Non-Christian who didn't post a >followup obviously agreed. Come off it. You are just using this as another >chance to say "Look all Christians are like this. Just where do they get >off." My goodness, we *are* touchy, aren't we? Sorry to disappoint you, but I have nothing against Christians. I've even known some who were big enough to accept sincere criticism from non-Christians. > In anycase, in response to Black's article (which was purged by the >time I started this), from the cuts I saw, he is your typical screwed >individual whose mind rotted sometime around birth. While I have always >believed that it's not my place to decide if someone is actually a >Christian, I would seriously doubt whether he has a right to claim such a >title. His views are altogether unfounded (and not at all consistent with >the Bible). I know of no Christians who would agree with him (although I do >not claim to speak for all). Put simply he is f*cked up. > At the risk of sounding like a Christian (God forbid), I would say >that most of his beliefs are straight from the Devil himself. The above is the kind of response I had hoped my message would elicit from Christians, and I am sincerely glad that you chose to add this afterthought to your flame. Thanks for making my day. - From the Crow's Nest - Kenn Barry NASA-Ames Research Center Moffett Field, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- USENET: {ihnp4,vortex,dual,hao,menlo70,hplabs}!ames!barry