Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site pyuxd.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!pyuxd!rlr
From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Dr. Emmanuel Wu)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: More on silence
Message-ID: <879@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 8-Apr-85 21:02:47 EST
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.879
Posted: Mon Apr  8 21:02:47 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 9-Apr-85 20:47:12 EST
References: <5675@duke.UUCP>
Organization: STRONGARM COLLECTION AGENCY:  We have no slogan
Lines: 59

> In addition to my "defense of silence" I have posted two articles of the
> sort you mention ("I didn't think anyone would take this twit seriously,
> but since they have, here's what I think about [his beliefs]")  [TINKHAM]

Just like they didn't take that German twit seriously.  Don't take it as
a personal insult when I say some people never learn.  A LOT of people never
learn.  I'd hope that if I failed to see a new Nazism coming along that there'd
be someone whose vantage point made it more visible who spoke out loudly.  We
all fail to learn lessons from history.  But once they are pointed out to us,
one would think that the learning process would be ameliorated.  Hopefully the
next time someone like this comes along we won't all be saying "He's just
a twit..."

> It is troublesome that homosexuality and Mormon beliefs would receive a more
> rapid denunciation from "lots of Christians" than Identity.
> I do not know why this is the case.  (I leave that defense to those who
> denounced homosexuality and/or the Mormons but not Identity.)

I expect those people to remain silent in the face of any serious questions
as usual.  Perhaps because it is exactly the same mentality of moral
superiority leading one to denounce Mormons, homosexuals, etc., that leads
one to ACCEPT Identity Christianity-like notions.

> [Rosen:]
> Will you act only if and when they "ever begin to come to power"?  Are you
> only willing to act when it's too late?  Or will you speak up now?  Having
> learned a lesson of history from those who didn't...

>    Agreed, "begin to come to power" was too strong a phrase to use.  I didn't
> mean we should wait until we've stumbled into a dictatorship (or even a
> repressive democracy) before taking any action.  I meant to draw a distinction
> between beliefs and actions:  when prejudices are acted upon, they hurt
> people, and at that point the oppressors must be opposed.  Even the Identity
> people and similar groups have a right to freedom of religion and speech, but
> when their beliefs are acted out in a manner which harms others, political
> and legal action is called for.
>    Rich and others have made the point that evil actions begin with evil
> thoughts, and it is better to oppose evil while it is still in the mind
> than to wait until atrocities have been committed and then try to repair
> the damage.  I thought I would never concede a point to Rich [ :-) !],
> but I have been persuaded that I should listen more carefully to speakers
> for Identity and similar groups because 1) they are, possibly, not
> as small a minority as I had thought (I still have to verify that), 2) if
> acted upon, their beliefs will, apparently, bring serious harm to others,
> and 3) if acted upon, their beliefs will bring harm to others in the name
> of Christ.

The point is not the difference between actions and thoughts, because we cannot
control people's thoughts, though we can influence them to perhaps be more
rational.  Malicious speech that maligns ethnic or other groups solely for
the purpose of spreading hatred based on fabrications, especially by those
who claim to be asking "serious questions" and posing as "reasonable people",
is the evil here.  Because you yourself have shown that you (and others)
don't recognize it for what it is at the outset.
-- 
"to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best night and day
 to make you like everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human
 being can fight and never stop fighting."  - e. e. cummings
	Rich Rosen	ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr