Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site pyuxd.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!mhuxt!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!pyuxd!rlr From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Dr. Emmanuel Wu) Newsgroups: net.religion.christian Subject: Re: Arguments from Silence: Golden or just Yellow? Message-ID: <848@pyuxd.UUCP> Date: Wed, 3-Apr-85 20:10:59 EST Article-I.D.: pyuxd.848 Posted: Wed Apr 3 20:10:59 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 5-Apr-85 02:21:55 EST References: <1008@phs.UUCP> <771@pyuxd.UUCP> <1308@shark.UUCP> Organization: STRONGARM COLLECTION AGENCY: We have no slogan Lines: 72 >>It's funny that only Wingate and Brown, the ones who have actually >>been tarred with the label "anti-Semite" at times, have chosen to perhaps >>"cleanse" themselves by denouncing Black, but even then only mildly so. >>The evidence as presented seems rather clear, but you'd rather wait till >>his kind firebombs someone's house before accepting what it is he's >>putting forth. Don't get me wrong. I say let him speak. Let his own >>words show him for the bigoted fool that he is. It will happen soon >>enough. > Rich, PLEASE come off your infinite superiority act. Your repeated articles > have been effective in bringing Black to our attention. There is very little > in the way of agreement with Black's "christianity" on this net, from > Christian or non-Christian. You have done us all a service, even if you > seem to feel compelled to go to extremes in your condemnation of our > "hypocrisy". Extremes? In defense against bigotry? I hardly consider my efforts "extremes". Funny, I've seen Spence arguing about the reasonableness of Nazism, I've seen Marchionni rationally debating religion with him, I've seen Wingate complain more about the fact that I label his inaction for what it is than complaining about Black, and as Bill Peter pointed out, I've also seen Bob Brown complain because Black's attitudes towards Jews made it harder to proselytize. Very little? You make me laugh. (Why is "hypocrisy" in quotes? And "infinite superiority"? Perhaps it seems that way when comparing saying something (anything) to saying nothing. > If I were Wingate or Brown, I would take personal offense at your claim > that they are "cleansing themselves" by denouncing Black. I publicly apologized for insinuating that that was the ONLY reason for doing so. But don't let facts interfere with your attack, Hutch. (You never do.) Continue... > It may be hard for you to accept this, but Christians don't HAVE to believe > just what you want us to believe, any more than you HAVE to believe what > we want YOU to believe. Nor do we have to act on every injustice, and I > doubt that you yourself act on every injustice you encounter. In fact, I > KNOW that you don't, because you refuse to recognize some kinds of injustice. > (For instance, the injustice inherent in your proclaimed desire to see > Christianity extinguished from the face of the Earth.) 1) But, according to you, you DO have to accept Christian tenets about love for fellow human beings, and act in a "Christian" manner. You're right, I have no right on this earth or anywhere else to DEMAND that you speak out, or that you act on "every injustice". The fact that THIS particular set of injustices means absolutely nothing to you is what appalls me. You call yourself Christians? You have the gall to then claim that Black is not a Christian? On what basis do you dissociate from him? You claim to care about fellow human beings, as put forth in your Christian doctrine. Your inaction now (presumably it would have been the same inaction you would have taken in 1930's Germany as well, had you been there) shows that that doctrine, when the rubber hits the road, is just so much hot air. And that's what I'm complaining about: for months we've been told "Don't believe that the Inquisition, the Crusades, the pogroms, the holocaust, were done by Christians! Real Christians and real Christianity would never let such things happen." And now we see, in fact, what the "true Christians" are doing: squat. 2) I'm not sure what injustice you are referring to at the end of your own paragraph up there. The only way I wish to see any irrational belief systems die is via natural causes: through people gradually realizing the erroneousness of such systems and discarding them, due to improved education and "enlightenment". Never have I ever even remotely proposed eradication or violent elimination of such beliefs. And I never will. As long as we're not talking about belief systems whose advocates realize the eventual demise of their constituency through the above events and who in turn seek to turnabout and foster the (if "necessary") violent elimination of those who WOULD perform such educating and enlightening. Which is EXACTLY what is happening right at this moment. And which must be stopped if we are to preserve human freedoms. -- "Discipline is never an end in itself, only a means to an end." Rich Rosen pyuxd!rlr