Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site oakhill.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!ut-sally!oakhill!davet From: davet@oakhill.UUCP (Dave Trissel) Newsgroups: net.religion.christian Subject: Re: Church Discipline and Gay Christians (Warning: gets hot) Message-ID: <379@oakhill.UUCP> Date: Sun, 7-Apr-85 05:40:23 EST Article-I.D.: oakhill.379 Posted: Sun Apr 7 05:40:23 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 9-Apr-85 00:52:20 EST References: <1292@akgua.UUCP> <1509@ihuxl.UUCP> <166@cci-bdc.UUCP> Reply-To: davet@oakhill.UUCP (Dave Trissel) Organization: Motorola Inc. Austin, Tx Lines: 134 Keywords: Self-righteous, hypocrisy, drivel In article <523@teklds.UUCP> larryg@teklds.UUCP (Karen Calrk) writes: > >Here we go again.... > >Dave mentioned (I think it was Dave) how Romans was already >quoted (but you can't refute it can you! or Leviticus) > Actually, all that needs to be refuted is whether Paul speaks for God or not and whether the Bible is God's perfect word. We can start at Genesis if you like and show how the two different versions of the order of creation there contradict one another. So much for the Bible being perfect. Next we have Adam and Eve's sons Cain and Seth procreating among themselves with "wives" appearing out of nowhere. I guess as some have posted in this newsgroup that God "allowed" incest since that's the only way of increasing the population. This goes on for several generations. The score so far: Incest 704 Homosexuality 0 Now we come to the sons of God coming into the earth (from Heaven?) and having sex with the "daughters of men" creating giants. After this they came again and bore children which were again giants. News flash: Incest 2130 Extraterrestrial Sex 3846 Homosexuality 0 Now we finally get to Noah who leaves the ark with only his sons and their wives. (Sigh.) More incest to repopulate the earth. Incest makes a comeback Incest 8949 Extraterrestrial Sex 3846 Homosexuality 0 Do you Christians who take the Genesis myths as literal truths see why your beliefs appear silly? As myths I believe they have powerful ways of working on us at subconscious levels. But when you proclaim them as absolute truths you turn the Bible into something about as believable as professional wrestling. (I almost expect to get rebuttals such as "But professional wrestling IS just as TRUE as the Bible!!" ;-) ) Concerning Paul, he was quite ahead of his time. He had remarkable insight into human nature and also saw that the church was going to start desintigrat- ing since the eminent return of Jesus didn't seem to be happening as planned. Directly responsible for the continuation of the Christian church his writings show his tact and biases as well. It is obvious from his letters that Paul wrote them, not God. Why should Paul be any better at getting around cultural prejudices than St. Thomas Aquinas who believed women were only created when defects occurred at conception. >Why continue to prove to us heterosexual bigots that we should >accept homosexuality and that God does? WE CAN'T and I CAN'T. > >That is really beside the point. Does Jesus, does God accept >it? He can't either. > You know Karen, you remind me of the so-called religious leaders around Jesus' time. They KNEW from their scriptures what God was and wanted. And when Jesus came they fell over themselves proving how He violated scripture and blasphemed God. I would feel sorry for Jesus running into you today. As soon as He would say something even remotely different from YOUR understanding of scripture you would be the first to call Him a liar and blasphemer. In fact, to you, this would have to be a false prophet very likely controlled by Satan himself since he is twisting God's word claiming to know as much as God. Especially once you find out he has actually ministered to a gay congregation- he even had the gall to claim they were among the downtrodden he talked about once - you would really have him on the ropes. This would be utter proof. . To show yourself pious before God maybe you would even lecture him publicly to show the world this man's folly. And if he, instead, attracted more and more followers, why... why yes- the damage caused by this false man claiming to know what God really wants and misleading others into Hell is so great -- that God would certainly approve of His death! I can just see you now washing your hands claiming "It's his own fault! He proved he was a liar and blasphemer by his own words!" In summary Karen, you claim a relationship with God, yet all you talk about is a book. Concerning homosexuality or any other matter, I presume you could just get the answer from God himself. Who is the greater authority? God or the Bible? Why not get the answer from God? I think I know why. Because you won't ask him, that's why. If you were honest with yourself you would have to admit that YOU DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING FROM GOD THAT YOU DON'T ALREADY BELIEVE! I'm willing to bet that you actually FEAR God telling you anything that may not match your interpretation of the Bible. That's why you will never ask God about homosexuality. You couldn't stand His answer being anything other than what YOUR INTERPRETATION OF WHAT YOU THINK GOD'S WORD AND SCRIPTURE IS. That explains why there's never a response such as "Yes, I prayed last night and God told me homosexuality is ...." like there has been with at least one real Christian in this newsgroup who actually seems to have a working relationship with God, unlike your "This book says..." mouthings. I think its hypocritical to go around saying "I have a personal relationship to God" and then disprove it with your drivel. You have every right to believe homosexuality is wrong as I do that Christian- ity is wrong - as long as neither of us harm others in so doing! But don't expect for me and others to believe that YOU know what God thinks BECAUSE ITS OBVIOUS THAT YOU DON'T! >..... The scripture has been quoted and discussed and spoken but >YOU conviently attack certain scripture and ignore what you can't attack. I accuse you of quoting scripture and ignoring God. When you don't have a God to cling to, all you're left with is a book. I also accuse you of worshipping the Bible - the false image you place higher than God Himself! > >There are Satanic churches too but that doesn't make them right either >(discussing Gay churches). And I suppose that in these Satanic churches they pray to Jesus and testify and claim miracles in Jesus' name? You better go to either Jesus or a gay church and find out the truth! (I doubt you'll do either.) > >Is your heart right with Jesus? That is the question each of us >must ask if we desire to follow HIM. > >karen Is your heart right with Jesus? If so, how do you explain your lack of communication with Him over these issues? Do you just talk to Jesus - I mean, is it always a one-way conversation? Do you ever hear anything back? Hello.....Hello.... Earth to Karen....Earth to karen P.S My apologies to the real Christians out there. I don't for one minute think Karen represents any of you. Dave Trissel {seismo,ihnp4}!ut-sally!oakhill