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From: ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis)
Newsgroups: net.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Peter and churches
Message-ID: <175@spar.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 10-Apr-85 05:19:03 EST
Article-I.D.: spar.175
Posted: Wed Apr 10 05:19:03 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 11-Apr-85 02:43:37 EST
References: <8368@watarts.UUCP> <1015@cbosgd.UUCP> <1084@topaz.ARPA> <1237@reed.UUCP>
Reply-To: ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis)
Organization: Schlumberger Palo Alto Research, CA
Lines: 62

>... He said that he thought that through
>Peter's actions he continued to deny Christ. Another student asked what
>he thought Peter had done to deny Christ. His reply was that Peter went
>and set up a church, and that there was nothing that could deny Christ's
>teachings more than setting up a church.
>
>I would like to hear some thoughts on whether or not Christ
>taught that a church (organized religion) should be set up in the first
>place. Did he teach it, did he teach against it, or was he silent on the
>subject?
>    I have always highly questioned the concept of organized religion,
>especially after I became a Christian. So I tend to lean towards
>agreeing with my professor's statement. But I'm not going to give a full
>fledged opinion until I do a little reading about it, and what Christ
>did say. 
>    Anyone have any views on this? -- 	elizabeth (Lady Godiva)

    Perhaps he was referring to the descriptions just prior to Christ's
    transformation:

Matthew 16.18-23

	And I say to you, that you are Peter, and on this (rock = Peter)
	I will build my(?) church, and the gates of hades will not
	prevail against it.
	
	I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever
	you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever
	you release on earth shall be released in heaven.
	
	Then he warned the disciples lest they should relate that 
	he is Christ.

	From that time Jesus Christ began to describe to his disciples
	how He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things and be killed
	and be raised on the third day.

	And {helping, taking hold of}* Him, Peter began to {rebuke, appraise,
	honor}** Him saying: May God help you, Lord, by no means shall this
	happen to you.

    *proslabomenos \  Both these verbs, curiously enough,
    **epitiman     /  have several contradictory meanings!

    Later on, after Christ's transformation:

Matthew 17.9

	And coming down from the mountain, Jesus joined them {Peter, James,
	John} saying: Relate this vision to nobody until the son of man
	is raised from the dead.

    Mark 8.30 - 9.9 and Luke 9.21 are similar. These parts of the Bible 
    are as beautiful as they are confusing, but it does seem that one
    interpretation is that:
    
    1) Peter was to remain silent until after the crucifixion.
    2) Peter's fault was his desire to prevent Jesus from being crucified.

    No doubt other interpretations are possible.

-michael