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From: gershon@utcsri.UUCP (Ron Gershon)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Leaving Israel alone
Message-ID: <983@utcsri.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 4-Apr-85 23:35:24 EST
Article-I.D.: utcsri.983
Posted: Thu Apr  4 23:35:24 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 4-Apr-85 23:44:02 EST
References: <577@lsuc.UUCP> <8@aquila.UUCP>
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Lines: 85

In response to Chris Retterath

> Sure, and any invading country is really peace loving, if only the original
> inhabitants would turn over their homes/possessions/et cetera, and
> leave the invaders to enjoy them in peace.

Who is the invading country? Clearly you have forgotten who invaded whom
in 1948, 1973, and who was the cause for the 1956,1967 wars in the Middle-East..
> Many people sympathize with Israel's position, but in Canada and Europe,
> at least, there seems to be a much more balanced view of the 'unholy' lands
> than in the U.S. administrations.

Well, maybe there are other reasons for the "much more balanced view" of
this issue, namely oil, larger markets for exports, etc.

>                                   As long as the Palestinians are living
> in refugee camps in Jordan there will be Arab hatred of Israel, and many
> Canadians understand this.

It is very sad that not too many Arab country leaders have understood this
many many years ago. Had they realised that Israel was going to remain in the
region, they could have solved the problem, just as Israel solved the problem
of Jews all over the world (i.e., relocating the ones (who wished) to Israel,
and providing them with the means to start their new lives). The Arabs chose
to maintain the refugees in their camps hoping that one day it will turn to
a useful bargaining card.

>                                   This is a way to build peaceful relations
> with your Arab neighbours?

Israel's record for trying to build peacful relations with its neighbours is
by no means something to be ashamed of. Since its independence, it has asked
the Arab leaders directly and indirectly to meet and resolve the problems. In
the only two "round-table" meetings (unfortunately, after wars) between Israel
and its neighbours (in 1949 and 1974), Israel was NOT the country to walk out.
Picking out one line from a newpaper does not say a whole lot about the people's(in this case, Israelis) search for peace.

> There are too many arguments and counter arguments to be made by both sides;
> I am sure there are good internal reasons for all the atrocities. But that
> doesn't alter the fact that there are very real hatreds of both parties for
> each other.

What atrocities were comitted by Israel?
What makes you think that Israelis hate Arabs? Have you ever asked them? Have
you ever verified it? The public in Israel in general does not hate the Arabs;
as was mentioned before, people want to be left alone and build their country
and not fight a war every 5 years.

>              Arguing the case here in Canada is, in my opinion, a fruitless
> and morally sick academic exercise ...

Speak for yourself. If you think that arguing the case ANYWHERE is morally
sick, then what point is there in your article?

> I still stand by my labelling (oh so long ago!) of Israel as a belligerent
> power. 

No problem; in that case, under this classification, Canada and Lybia are in
the same categoty. Furthermore, since Egypt and Syria DID NOT attack Israel
in 1973 (or did they?), they are also considered as non-belligerent.

> as well, there is increasing evidence of the poor treatment
> (i.e. lack of civil rights / legal discrimination) against Arabs living
> in Israel. Is apartheid far from coming now?

What is this increasing evidence? Did they lose their right to vote?
Was the number of Arab MKs (Member of Knesset, the Israeli Parliment)
restricted? Was their freedom of speech limited? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

>                                              (Did you know that all Israeli
> identity cards give the religion of the bearer? Do you wonder why?)

Yes, I know, and I wonder if YOU know why? Is it part of the "increasing
poor treatment", or was always like that?
Have you ever asked the same question about Arab ID cards? Have 
you checked (or at least asked) about the condition in which Jews live in Arab
countries? Do you know if they have any freedom of speech?

-- 
		Ron  Gershon

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