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From: bmt@we53.UUCP ( B. M. Thomas )
Newsgroups: net.abortion
Subject: Re: On the news (paranoids)
Message-ID: <302@we53.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 25-Mar-85 22:22:19 EST
Article-I.D.: we53.302
Posted: Mon Mar 25 22:22:19 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 2-Apr-85 05:35:38 EST
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Organization: AT&T Technologies - St. Louis Missouri
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>What I asked, and what Brian has so far not answered, is how he knows
>the other side is ungodly and evil, and that those who do not
>recognize this are lacking in moral sense.  

  I did answer, and answer again for you, the question
of how I know.  They are proving it.  I need not say a word.

>This view of "we're the good guys on God's side, you're agents of
>evil" is EXACTLY the state of mind that has led to the many
>atrocities of persecution in history, by Christians as well as
>others.  It is known as the paranoid view of the world.  It says that
>the trouble is caused by "them," the bad guys, the unbelievers and
>godless people.  This often leads to the idea that the way to get rid
>of the trouble is to get rid of "them."  

I THOUGHT you read my article - you included part of it.  But you are
playing a pre-recorded tape of some stereotyped opinion which I have
not expressed.  I am simply saying, LOOK at the FACTS.  OPEN your EYES.
I did NOT say, "get rid of them".  I said, LOOK at their character.
Hear the ugliness of what they SAY, of what they LIVE.  Then judge
for yourself.

>I note that Brian recently quoted God, through Solomon, to the effect
>that it's OK to punish children by beating them; it's good for them.
>If God actually said this, He is the Devil. 

And who are YOU?  You are greater than God.  You understand everything.

>					       An important factor in
>the rise of Nazism was the prevalence of authoritative and cruel
>methods of child-rearing which were justified, and still are, by
>reference to the Bible.  But according to Brian and millions of
>others, if the Bible says it, it's so, and directly from God.
>
>We have not learned much from the phenomenon of Nazism if we don't
>take very seriously the paranoid groups in our midst, such as those
>Fundamentalists who divide the world into good guys and bad guys.
>Hitler for once was right when he said, "What good fortune for those
>in power that people do not think." 

It appears that YOU have learned nothing from Nazism, except the
Big Lie technique,  that says the bigger the lie, the more people
will believe it.  The essence of Nazism was the same old lie that
people today are believing in masses - that men are, and of right
ought to be, equal to God, and that God should be relegated to
his time in the past where he belonged.  A new man was developing,
the Aryan race, foretold by the Tibetan monks and the likes of 
Gurdjief and Eckardt.  This new man had no need for the old Jewish
Christian God.  The persecution of Jews was not in the name of
Christianity, it was in the name of pulling God from his throne.
Anti-Semitism arises from rejection of God, not from radical Christianity.
One of the foremost Christian teachers of the time, Dietrich
Bonhoeffer, was executed for allegedly plotting to assassinate
the Fuehrer.  The real Christian church was as fiercely persecuted
as the Jews.  Nazism happened in part because Christians of the time
did not recognize his real purposes and failed to stand against him
and his values.

>I live in the United States, which has a culture strongly influenced
>by Puritanism and the so-called Protestant ethic.  It is anything but
>a hedonistic society.  

  This period is known right now to friends AND foes of Christianity
as the "post-Christian period".  The fact is, the Puritan influence you
speak of has faded.  The very topic we initially discussed is more proof
than most need of this.
  Any society that says, "if it feels good, it not only is all right to
do it, but I've got a RIGHT to do it, regardless of whom it hurts, is by
my definition(and most anyone's that I know of) hedonistic at its root.

Stick to the facts, instead of ape-brained repetitions of some stereotype
you saw on TV.  Also, read something about Nazism, rather than reinterpreting
what you think you remember about history in the light of your new
holier-than-thou values.