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Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!plus5!hokey
From: hokey@plus5.UUCP (Hokey)
Newsgroups: net.mail
Subject: Re: Sendmail problems - HELP!
Message-ID: <655@plus5.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 30-Mar-85 19:19:46 EST
Article-I.D.: plus5.655
Posted: Sat Mar 30 19:19:46 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 31-Mar-85 04:59:25 EST
References: <325@mnetor.UUCP>
Reply-To: hokey@plus5.UUCP (Hokey)
Organization: Plus Five Computer Services, St. Louis
Lines: 56
Summary: 

In article <325@mnetor.UUCP> clewis@mnetor.UUCP (Chris Lewis) writes:
>If I send a piece of mail:
	Mail utcs!utcsri!someoneA utcs!utcsri!someoneB utcs!someoneC someoneD
>and someoneA replies to the message, the return addresses get ARPAized
>(utcsri is also on ARPA) into this:
	From utcs!someoneA@utcsri Thu Mar 21 13:48:47 1985
	Return-Path: <someoneA@utcsri>
	From: utcs!someoneA@utcsri (SomeoneA's name)
	To: someoneC@utcs, mnetor!clewis@utcs
	Cc: mnetor!someoneD@utcs, utcsri!someoneB@utcs

I believe the problem is that utcsri is treating the message between UUCP
and ARPA as a bridge does, when it should be treating messages as a gateway.
(A bridge simply passes data without translation.)

I can't blame the folks at utcsri.  I recently attacked this problem in
a major way, and decided that it was probably unsolvable at many places
without an edge database of sufficient mail sites on at least one of the
nets in question.  (Several people know the degree to which I gloss over
this point.)

Furthermore, I believe sendmail is not suitable for use in UUCP land,
because of the way >From lines are tied to From: lines, the lack of .cf-file
level control of outgoing message headers (the U mailer flag format is
hardcoded), attempts to properly qualify local recipients seems doomed
to failure ($u seems to get rewritten instead of just the recipient)
(which causes the local mailer to blow up), and there is no easy way to
handle an arbitrary domain spec.  Also, *every* address must be translated
at gateway sites to conform to the routing and addressing requirements
of the "new" protocol.  I have never been able to get sendmail to do this.
The problem is exacerbated by the route oriented nature of UUCP land,
which makes it very difficult to properly qualify the sender and recipients
at gateway sites.  I almost forgot - it is fun dealing with:

	From: Firstname Lastname (comment phrase) <site!user>

or some such construct with a "regular" unix mailer.

I don't doubt that several of my complaints are due to my ignorance.  I
discussed several issues pertaining to .cf files and sendmail's behavior
with J. Gilmore (sun!gnu), and he indicated that after 3 years of hacking
sendmail, he feels pretty good.  This is all well and good, but I don't
think one should have to spend much time at all to make this stuff work.

Lest people infer that I disapprove of Eric Allman's work, I'd like to
state that the man must be a genius.  Sendmail is great for true internet
mail communication.  The problems show up when sendmail is used in
different networks with different mail protocols.

When I finish all my hacking, I will be posting the .cf files I use for
uucp sites.  I have drawn from *many* sources.

Who knows?  Who cares?  Why bother?  It just doesn't matter.
-- 
Hokey           ..ihnp4!plus5!hokey
		  314-725-9492