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Path: utzoo!laura
From: laura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: To Laura:  outlook on life and free will
Message-ID: <5369@utzoo.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 29-Mar-85 04:52:55 EST
Article-I.D.: utzoo.5369
Posted: Fri Mar 29 04:52:55 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 29-Mar-85 04:52:55 EST
References: <362@aesat.UUCP> <5272@utzoo.UUCP>, <734@pyuxd.UUCP> <5312@utzoo.UUCP>, <766@pyuxd.UUCP> <5364@utzooRe: To Laura:  outlook on liFri, 29-Mar-85 04:52:55 EST
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
Lines: 57

Rich, I am going to try this again, from scratch. It is not htat I do not
care about definitions, it is simply that I think that the notion of free
will is embedded in what we mean by certain words. In the absense of free
will it is difficult to see what these words are going to mean.

Here goes. When I look at the past I do not think that I can change it.
The past is fixed, finished, done with, over. There are things that I
do not like about the past, but that is tough, there is nothing that I
can do about it now.

What you are doing is proposing a future thatis as fixed as the past.
Whatever future is going to be, is going to be, and, just as the past
cannot be changed by me, the future cannot be changed by me either. The
future happens to be unknown by me, but that is the only difference.
Given a sufficiently powerful way of understanding everything that is,
one could predict exactly what is going to happen in the future.

I don't care if you are God or Hari Sheldon (sp?) -- it still means that
any sense of choice that I think that I have is is misconception on my part.
Whatever I am going to do, whatever it is, I am compelled to do. I could not
do other.

When I think like this, I feel like an actress on a stage. I am merely going
through set motions. there is no chance for ad-libbing -- i just follow
the stage instructions.

Upon deeper reflection, I find that I have no more reason to take pride in
my actions than I have reason to take pride in the fact that dropped
objects fall or that any other action occurred. I am just a small and
insignificant part of what has happend/is happeniong/will happen -- and
moreover there is no reason to give any part any more significance than
any other part.

If I am an evil person, then I was going to be an evil person, and Hari
Sheldon or God could have told you about it before I was born. If I am
a good person then I was going to be a good person, and likewise this
fact could have been relayed to you before I was born. 

For what should I have any self-respect? My actions are not self-willed
actions -- they were inevitable since the beginning of time.

However, without self-respect, I find that the things that once gave me
joy can no longer give me joy. My joy was a very selfish and personal
joy, and I now see that my self is no more significant than any other
thing that is. To actually believe this would cause me to literally go
out like a candle. I could no longer have any aesthetic appreciation for
anything, and I could no longer value anything. I would see no reason to
value anything over any other thing, since they are all as they had to be.

Do you understand what I am saying? I am saying that without a self that
is willed, I cannot give a damn about anything, since I cannot see any
reason to care. Whether I care or not, hte future that was going to be
will be the present soon enough.

Laura Creighton
utzoo!laura