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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Dr. Emmanuel Wu)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: To Laura:  outlook on life and free will
Message-ID: <832@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 3-Apr-85 11:15:14 EST
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.832
Posted: Wed Apr  3 11:15:14 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 4-Apr-85 08:10:31 EST
References: <800@pyuxd.UUCP> <1310003@acf4.UUCP>
Organization: STRONGARM COLLECTION AGENCY:  We have no slogan
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>>But you don't know the "stage instructions".  You have no knowledge of
>>your future actions (as you just said).  No matter whether they are
>>predetermined and predictable or not, you are still about to partake of
>>those actions and their consequences.  And to experience them fully.

> Exactly when does one come to know the "stage instructions," only at the time
> of action?  Assuming you brain communicates instructions to your body,
> how and where from does your brain obtain this information ?

What information?  The "instructions"?  Why do you think the word is in
quotes?  They're not necessarily pre-written like a play.  They result as 
consequences of existing chemical states.

>>To which I say again:  so?  I have self-respect.  I learn from the
>>experiences around me, and those experiences led me to have the self-respect
>>that I not have, and mold my reactions to the world and allow me to 
>>experience it in the way that I do.  I take pride in my actions, because
>>doing so is part of my nature, and by doing so I improve my life through
>>learning and doing.

> Self-respect implies a self.  What is this self that you're refering to?
> By the way, "mold my reactions" and "I improve my life through learning and
> doing" sound conspicuously like statements of a free will.

The self is all the parts of one's body that experience the world and store
information about that experiencing.  The aforementioned statements only
"conspicuously" sound like free will if you already believe in free will.
The fact that reactions are molded precisely by the current physical state
of the brain and the world around it do not at all imply a notion of free will,
nor does a statement about "improving my life".

>>On the contrary, I feel just as much reason for feeling joy and for
>>enjoying things in life, especially knowing that every experience I've
>>had has actually led me to the point where I am right now, giving me
>>my perspective, my taste, my capacity for enjoying things in life.  You're
>>damn right:  *your* self is no more significant than any other thing that is.
>>To believe that is deeply irrational, self-centered, and egocentric.  BUT,
>>for you, the organism that IS you, the experiences that you have ARE
>>most important.  Not in the fabric of the whole universe, but from your
>>own perspective.  Each experience molds your life, changes your outlook,
>>etc.  If you take the steps to let it.  I hope what I am saying would
>>influence you to choose to do so.

> By mentioning self-centeredness and egocentricity, you imply that there is
> something wrong with them.  But if someone is self-centered they are not,
> according to your contention, that way by choice.  Then why bother bringing
> it up?  What significance could it possibly have?

Because being that way posits an erroneous misconception about the world that
is a detriment to the experience of life.

> How can what you are saying INFLUENCE anyone to CHOOSE to do anything, if they
> don't have free will?  What meaning does INFLUENCE have here?  (Presumably,
> you are not connected physically to the person you're INFLUENCing.)

The information sent by my words is interpreted and saved by the other person,
the listener.  Based on how he/she is currently "made up", this information
may or may not have a certain effect (as other stored information does) on
the way that he/she experiences life.  i.e., an influence on that person's
life.  There.
-- 
Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen.
					Rich Rosen    pyuxd!rlr