Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!laura From: laura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton) Newsgroups: net.philosophy Subject: free will (1 more try before I give up ...) Message-ID: <5414@utzoo.UUCP> Date: Thu, 4-Apr-85 14:07:09 EST Article-I.D.: utzoo.5414 Posted: Thu Apr 4 14:07:09 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 4-Apr-85 14:07:09 EST Organization: U of Toronto Zoology Lines: 92 Rich, I am obviously not getting my point across. Either I am communicating badly, or you are not listening/thinking, or both. I am going to give it one more shot, with an analogy. If this doesn't work, I am going to pack it in. This will not mean that I agree with you, but just that I do not think that I know what it takes to communicate with you, nor how to go about learning how. The subject of this analogy is: 2 ways in which to watch the movie STAR WARS. The first way is the way that most people watch the movie STAR WARS. You go to the theater. You have already seen the movie 17 times before. This does not matter. As you enter the theater you willingly suspend your disbelief in ``the Force'' inter-galactic civilisations, space ships that can travel faster than the speed of light, light-sabers, and robots like C3P0. You also get involved in the story. When you get to crucial moments in the story -- for instance, when Tarkin threatens to destroy Alderaan -- you really believe that this is an important decision, and fervantly hope that Tarkin will spare the planet. This is distinct from the second way in which you can watch the same movie. What you do is to get a videotape and then get a bunch of people who work at Industrial Lights and Magic to come over. You watch the film very differently then. You are very aware of the plot, because you a waiting for the big explosions. When Alderaan blows up you get a description of how the filming of that went, and who was responsible, and technical problems that they ran into, and, incidentally, who was brilliant and why. These are both terrific ways in which to watch a movie, but they are very different. In the first way you willingly forget that the movie must follow a pre-determined script. You willingly believe that the actors are real people who can either blow up Alderaan or not. In the second you are constantly aware that the actors will follow certain patterns, and you do not think that Alderaan can be saved -- you are waiting anxiously for it to blow up so you can watch the special effects. ----------------------------------------------- I think that this is a good analogy to life. For the purpose of argument, I am going to assume that my actions are entirely determined by the chemicals that make me up. What am I doing as I live my life? Well, currently I am living it as I watch STAR WARS -- the first way. If it is the truth that my decisions are determined by my chemicals, much as what is seen when you watch STAR WARS was determined by Lucasfilms, then I have done such a good job of willingly suspending my belief that I am not aware, even peripherally, that I am doing so. I think that my decisions *matter*. I think that when I decide to fire someone (the most serious thing I have done recently) that I can either do it or not. I do not think that my chemicals have determined me to fire someone, and that this determination was done long before I ever made the decision. In short, I think that I can either blow up Alderaan or not. Even if it could not be that I could have done other than fire that person, I still believe that I could have. What you are doing, Rich, is analagous to the part of my friends in ILM. Even if I wanted to watch STAR WARS in the first fashion, I could not with them around. They keep saying ``wait until you see the planet blow'' and ``wait until you see this shot'' at me. I cannot willingly believe that Tarkin could not blow up Alderaan while they are there reminding me of how glorious the exposion is going to be. IN THE SAME WAY, I cannot view my decisions as being important while you are there reminding me that they are alldetermined by my chemicals and that the outcome is going to be what had to be. So I took you seriously and started looking at my life in the how to watch STAR WARS number 2 fashion. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The great problem with the STAR WARS number 2 fashion of watching STAR WARS is that it trivialises the plot. The Plot and the characters do not matter, they are merely filler in between the shots of exploding things and other ILM magic. The plot doesn't matter, it is the effects that count. But, in *my* life, it is the PLOT, not the EFFECTS that matter. You are trivialising my life because what matters to me is my PLOT. I cannot watch my life in teh same way I can watch STAR WARS in the second fashion. My decisions are important to me as decisions -- not as filler before we get to the interesting exposions! If you take away the plot of my life, I will commit suicide. I am only enjoying life in that I think that I, like Tarkin, can blow up Aalderaans. If you convince me that I do not determine whether or not Aalderaan blows up, but rather such things are determined by chemical laws which merely work their way out to results in my brain then I am stuck with the non-choice of either living my life as a STAR WARS viewed in way 2, or not living at all. I know myself well enough to know that I would be chemically determined to kill myself at that point. Laura Creighton utzoo!laura