Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site uscvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!harpo!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!uscvax!baparao From: baparao@uscvax.UUCP (Bapa Rao) Newsgroups: net.nlang.india Subject: Re: In defense of caste-based reservation Message-ID: <189@uscvax.UUCP> Date: Sat, 20-Apr-85 22:53:45 EST Article-I.D.: uscvax.189 Posted: Sat Apr 20 22:53:45 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 23-Apr-85 06:59:49 EST References: <403@sftri.UUCP> <1638@ut-sally.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: CS&CE Depts, U.S.C., Los Angeles, CA Lines: 104 > In article <403@sftri.UUCP> rajeev@sftri.UUCP (S.Rajeev) writes: > > > > >The recent debate about this has prompted me to point out a few things > >that I feel justify caste-based reservation schemes. > > > > I disagree with the premise that anything can justify a policy which > differentiates between individuals on the basis of birth... I can't but be amused by the fact that whenever nations of the world try to right the inequities perpetrated by them in the name of race or caste, the privileged races or castes in each case seem to get religion in a hurry and start spouting self-righteous pseudo-egalitarian pap about the evils of "reverse discrimination". I guess it is not so much fun to have the shoe on the other foot! > is a point by point rebuttal of some of Rajeev's arguments. > > > This is really a non-issue, I think, > >because as far as I know, there are income limits that apply in most > >cases, especially the backward castes (as opposed to SC/ST). So it > >really benefits the lower-income lower-caste person. > > > > The fallacy is obvious: the issue is that while a distinction based on > income might be (I personally think it is) justifiable, one based on > caste is most certainly not. Clearly, a scheme which benefits 'lower-caste, > lower-income' people is not justifiable. What of 'non-lower-caste, lower- > income people'? There are many such. Indeed? Why should a bright little rich kid be deprived of opportunity in your income-based reservation system, simply because he or she is rich? Such a policy is based on birth, isn't it? Or is it the case that well-heeled applicants to college are all self-made milliionaires? It is hypocritical to accept discriminatory reservations on some arbitrary basis such as income, and equally arbitrarily rule out caste as a criterion on the other hand. The only possible conclusion is that the author is opposed to raising the educational and economic level of the depressed castes and tribes. When specific castes and tribes have been systematically and institutiionally deprived of education and opportunity for hundreds of generations, any bona fide attempt to remedy the situation has to address itself to the affected castes and tribes rather than try and sidestep the caste issue by hiding behind considerations of income. A caste-blind, income-based reservation system will, in the present circumstances, only benefit the poorer sections of the upper castes, largely excluding the depressed castes, since the institutions of society are all loaded in favor of the upper castes. If there is a limited number of seats open for admission to medical school, reserved for lower income people, regardless of caste, the odds are that the number of lower caste applicants will be far fewer than the number of upper caste applicants, simply due to ignorance and illiteracy already prevalent among those people. Also, if a poor Brahmin (say) boy and a poor Harijan boy both apply for the same reserved seat, and the Brahmin boy has somewhat better grades, but both the candidates make the cut, whom would you pick, as the Brahmin chairman of the admission committee? Really, it is utterly hypocritical to suggest that you can improve the lot of some specific castes by adopting a caste-blind policy. Are we really naive enough to believe that we can wish away centuries of oppression without having to pay some kind of price for it, in terms of injustice to individuals of upper castes, and yucky, un-cool caste-based politics? Judging by the kinds of things being said on the topic in this newsgroup, I am afraid we are. As the depressed castes become more militantly conscious of their collective plight, and of the insensitivity of the castes that had been responsible for that plight, you can be sure that there'll be hell to pay. Our choice is very simple: either we (the upper-caste dominated Indian society) make a small amount of sacrifice at the present time with a liberal caste-based reservation policy, and make it work well enough to give the depressed castes a stake in the continued integrity of Indian society, or we had better make plans to cope with a monstrous and bloody inter-caste conflict. We would be doing ourselves and our families a great favor by dropping the pretense that we are being very magnanimous in compensating the depressed castes for all the wrongs that our society has done them, and start realizing that reservations are the only way to save our skins. Do we need more Punjabs, Assams, Bihars, Bhiwandis, and so on to understand how thin is the veneer of stability that covers Indian society? > >Finally, I have often heard that giving an underqualified Harijan a medical > >college seat is akin to giving him/her "a licence to kill". But remember, a > >large number of upper-caste doctors finished bottom of their classes, and > >some of them are surely using the above licence :-) > No system is perfect, and there are bound to be people > who rise to (or beyond!) their level of incompetence. This does not mean we throw up > our hands and grant positions of responsibility to those who are clearly > incapable of handling it - this applies equally to an incompetent > Harijan benefitting from misguided reservations and to an incompetent > 'higher-caste' person benefitting from some other loophole. Hmm.. I wonder about all that stuff about Harijan professionals being incompetent, licensed to kill, and so on. I find it mighty suspicious that it is invariably the upper caste people, who resent the new "privileged" status of the Harijan, that say such things. Have there been any conclusive, credible studies on the relative effectiveness of Harijan doctors vs. caste Hindu doctors? If so, what would such a study prove? At worst, that there are varying degrees of mediocrity in Indian society! --Bapa Rao.