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From: garys@bunker.UUCP (Gary M. Samuelson)
Newsgroups: net.religion,net.philosophy
Subject: Re: Gd and causality
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Date: Fri, 19-Apr-85 14:56:54 EST
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Posted: Fri Apr 19 14:56:54 1985
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> 	I want to sound off an idea I had, it may have flaws.
> If any are found, please respond concisely, clearly and *politely*.

There are flaws, but there are also assumptions which not everyone
will accept.  So even if you clear up the flaws, your argument
(which is not original) will not be convincing to many.

> 	Everything in this universe (once you get above Plank's 
> constant and Schroedinger) has a cause.

First big assumption, which not everyone will accept.  Why the
two exceptions? If you allow two, there may be more.

> Every cause preceeds its effects.

Second big assumption.  How do you know that time has such a
unidirectional nature?

> This would leave me with one of two conclusions; either
> 1- the universe (I mean space-time, which might have preceeded
> the big-bang. What caused the big-bang, anyway?) is infinitely
> old, or

The statement "space-time is infinitely old (or may be)" is circular.
You cannot measure the age of time, since time is the measure
of age.  Time has "always" existed, pretty much by definition.

> 2- there was a cause which is not of this universe that started
> the whole thing.
> 	Now, if the net entropy of the universe never decreases,
> wouldn't an infinitely old universe have to be infinitely entropous?
> If the entropy stayed constant for a stretch, we again have to ask
> what *caused* the present trend to start?

A quantity can be strictly increasing without becoming infinite,
if it approaches some value asymptotically.  E.g.  f(x) = 1 - 1/x
is strictly increasing, but will never exceed 1.  Even if entropy
were infinite, that would not be a problem, in at least two cases.
First, if the universe is infinitely large, then it could be infinitely
entropous and infinitely non-entropous simultaneously.  Second, if
the universe is infinitely divisible, there could be an infinite amount
of entropy in a finite space.  Traditional arithmetic doesn't work well
with infinities (aka transfinite numbers).  For example, there are an
infinite number of even numbers, yet not all numbers are even.  Similarly,
there could be an infinite amount of entropy, yet not all is entropy.

> 				Thank You
You're welcome.

> Micha Berger			{philabs|cucard|pegasus|rocky2}!aecom!berger
> A Fugue in One Voice

Gary Samuelson