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From: ritter@spp1.UUCP (Phillip A. Ritter)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Social Programs Cause the Deficit
Message-ID: <191@spp1.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 17-Apr-85 20:23:01 EST
Article-I.D.: spp1.191
Posted: Wed Apr 17 20:23:01 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 19-Apr-85 01:40:34 EST
References: <108@pyuxh.UUCP> <602@rlgvax.UUCP> <762@ccice5.UUCP> <293@dolqci.UUCP> <121@ttrdc.UUCP>
Reply-To: ritter@spp1.UUCP (Phillip A. Ritter)
Organization: TRW, Redondo Beach  CA
Lines: 62
Summary: 

In article <121@ttrdc.UUCP> mjk@ttrdc.UUCP (Mike Kelly) writes:
> ...
>If you're against social programs on principle, fine.  I'd suggest to
>you that most people in this country have benefited from them.

In general, your right.  I, personally, don't like most of what the feds
currently do in the way of social programs ((thats my right!).
Most everyone has benifited from some of the social programs currently
in place.  I do, however, think that you have chosen some very
weak examples.

>  If you
>doubt that, ask yourself what kind of shape your older relatives would
>be in without social security;

My (very) older relatives wouldn't have been hurt much without it - they
knew from the start that they had to fend for themselves.
My parents, on the other hand, would probably have been much better off if
the system encouraged them to save instead of making promises to them that
could not possilby be met.
Its not clear that social security has been a net benifit for them at all.

>what kind of education you would have had
>without federal aid to primary and secondary schools,

My education probably benifitted a little.  There was no federal aid to
public primary and secondary school until the Johnson days.  My parents,
as well as my older brothers and sisters, did quite well with the poor
old local aid (no rich school districts, either.  Pomona, CA is a borderline
slum).  I'm not convinced that the federal programs have done anything to
actually aid education (point of view: opinions of my sister (a special
education teacher supported by COUNTY money and my mother (jr. high),
ran a reading lab supported by FEDERAL money (primary grades)).

> as well as the
>federal loan, grant and work-study programs for colleges;

I used none.  Saw no reason to use OPM (other peoples money) to pay when
my income (literal - no support from parents (who didn't have any savings
because they believed in socail security... )).
Most people I knew that used these services did so out of convienence.  They
didn't really ``need'' them (though I admit they do help some).

Also, what percent of the federal budget is direct student aid? (hint - less
than 0.1%).

A better example here would have been research support to colleges/universities.
A much bigger slice of the pie that applies to EVERYONE that has attended
college (some two-year institutions excepted).

> what your health
>would be like without federal support for disease research and universal
>vaccination.

Given.  Very good social program.  Still, however, a very small slice of the
federal pie.


For what its worth,
Phil Ritter
-- 
Phillip A. Ritter