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From: gkm@hou2b.UUCP (G.MCNEES)
Newsgroups: net.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Whats wrong with this eqation? (Paul=Jesus)
Message-ID: <493@hou2b.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 19-Apr-85 17:32:06 EST
Article-I.D.: hou2b.493
Posted: Fri Apr 19 17:32:06 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 23-Apr-85 01:48:48 EST
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Jesus said in John 16:12 "I have many things to say unto you, but
you cannot bear them now.  Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is
come, He will guide you into all truth; for He shall not speak of
Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He
will show you things to come. ..."

Many things that the apostle said were directly from the Lord,
however, occasionally he gave his own opinion, and says so in those
specific places.  

The Apostle Peter says concerning Pauls writing, "As also in all his
epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are SOME THINGS
HARD TO BE UNDERSTOOD which they that are unlearned and unstable
wrest, as they do also the OTHER SCRIPTURES, unto their own
destruction." II Peter 3:16.

Critics of the Bible have long asserted that it is filled with
contradictions.  Those of you who have children have experienced the
situation of trying to explain to them something which is not really
a contradiction to your understanding but because of their
immaturity and lack of knowledge and understanding, they thing the
thing being explained is contradictory.  I have found that as I've
studied the scriptures more, that what seemed contradictory in the
past is not really contradictory.

As Paul the apostle says none of us now understands fully; but THEN
we will fully understand even as we are fully understood.(BY GOD)
For this reason we have disagreements as to the meaning of the
scriptures.

For those of you that "like" the sayings of Jesus but "dislike" the
sayings of Paul: I say that you may not have or thought much about
some of the HARD sayings of our Lord.  I'll give a few examples:


John 5:46 "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me..."

John 6:65 "... Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come to
me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me..."

John 17:9 "I pray for them: I pray not for the world..."

Matthew 10:34 "Thing not that I am come to send peace on earth: I
came no to send peace, but a sword."

Matthew 11:25 "... I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth,
because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and
hast revealed them unto babes."

Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there
should be no flesh saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall
be shortened.

The above verses are but a sample.  My point is that Jesus said many
things many things which are harder to receive than what Paul has
said. 

The Spirit within me bears witness that what is written in the Bible
is all from God. (save those things which are specifically said to
have originated elsewhere e.g. the lies of Satan, etc.)  However, all that is
written is not binding upon Christians today.  For example, the
various laws that were given to the Jewish people were specifically
NOT GIVEN to us Christians to follow. 

I find it very interesting to see that new Christians expect to be
able to understand everything God has said in just a short time when
many devoted men of God have spent their lives serving Him and
studying His word and still readily admit that there are many things
they don't understand. Even as Paul has said, I Corinthians 13:9-
"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.  But when that which
is perfect is come, then ... but then I shall know even as I also am
known."

"By faith we know that the worlds were framed  by the word of God,
so that things which are seen were not made of things which do
appear." Hebrews 11:3

By faith also we know that the Bible is the word of God and that we
should, "study to show ourselves approved unto God a workman that
needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
(quote from II Timothy 2:15.)

I have been quite startled by the responses to this query concerning
"Paul=Jesus" from the Christians on the net who have so far
responded.  If we remove from "our" scriptures those portions we
don't like, I'm sure that soon very little would be left.  If, as
someone has said, the words recorded in the gospels were not
actually spoken by Jesus, then we have little to "stand on"!
And statments such as, "My words shall never pass away..."
attributed to Jesus have no meaning!  

I believe the Bible, especially the words and teachings of Jesus are
self authenticating.  By this I mean that we should listen to His
words and those of others, such as Rich. Then we will know
that what Jesus says
is true, authoritative, and ALL who listen KNOW IT!  
I submit that all who are arguing this point, do as Paul says in
Romans 1:18, and hold down the truth in unrighteousness. (verse 20)
"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are
CLEARLY seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His
eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

					sincerely, Gary