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From: eugene@utcsri.UUCP (Eugene Kligerman)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: War Criminals
Message-ID: <1050@utcsri.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 24-Apr-85 12:18:26 EST
Article-I.D.: utcsri.1050
Posted: Wed Apr 24 12:18:26 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 24-Apr-85 13:11:36 EST
References: <2186@utcsstat.UUCP> <458@mnetor.UUCP>
Reply-To: eugene@utcsri.UUCP (Eugene Kligerman)
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Lines: 42

In article <458@mnetor.UUCP> clewis@mnetor.UUCP (Chris Lewis) writes:

>Nor am I.  However, consider the environment in which they were living.
>The society positively reinforced such actions.  Any and 
>all dissent was violently suppressed.  If you were able-bodied and
>within draft age (sick and between 12 and 80 by 1945) you were placed 
>in the army and told what to do.  There were very few alternatives - 
>flee the country (which was very hard, particularly, since most 
>other countries wouldn't accept you), die for your beliefs (also 
>very hard, what about your children?), or go along with it (to 
>various extents).  A lot of Germans died for refusing to follow
>orders or actively trying to change the system.  As a matter of survival 
>you might have to do things that you wouldn't normally dream of doing.

I do not think that anybody is suggesting that the whole German nation
be held responsible or guilty for the atrocities committed in WWII.
The members of the wehrmacht are not considered to be war criminals -- they
were soldiers, and soldiers may in the heat of the moment ... etc.
And you are right, Chris to say that the soldiers were not necessarily
volunteers (though I am sure a lot of them were).
However the really criminal organization was the SS -- belonging to the
SS was considered to be a crime at the Nuremberg trials.
What you seem to forget, however, was that the membership in that particular
organization was _voluntary_ (though maybe not in the last stages of the war).

Those who joined, did so voluntarily, knowing the goals of that organization
(elite police force, Aryan purity, etc.)
Suggesting that the members of the SS (organization, members of which committed
the lion's share of the atrocities) are really unwilling conscripts, in my
mind makes them out to be the victims of the regime which is a desecration
of the memory of millions of people who were murdered during the war.

This topic happens to be particularly relevant in view of the 40'th anniversary
of the war's end (and liberation of many concentration camps), and in light
of Pres. Reagan's intended visit to the Bitburg cemetary in W. Germany.
May I also recommend as reading this week's issue of Time magazine.

--

Eugene Kligerman, Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto

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