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From: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: reply to Lord Frith
Message-ID: <501@cybvax0.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 24-Apr-85 00:23:47 EST
Article-I.D.: cybvax0.501
Posted: Wed Apr 24 00:23:47 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 25-Apr-85 04:21:44 EST
References: <301@cvl.UUCP>
Reply-To: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz)
Distribution: net
Organization: Cybermation, Inc., Cambridge, MA
Lines: 66
Summary: 

In article <301@cvl.UUCP> david@cvl.UUCP (David Harwood) writes:
> 	I get impatient too, but I give fuller, more respectful replies
> than most. Mike should worry about himself; he's the one full of accusations
> about "charlatans", "fraudualent miracle-workers", "shills", and "cabals"
> of fraudulent apostles. Also, he doesn't stick to his own points, and
> simply dismisses my replies with notions about "conspiracy theories". I
> believe Mike is intelligent, but very unreasonably prejudiced, a
> programmatic "agnostic".

When I set to the task of explaining the putative historical events of
the bible from a scientific materialist viewpoint, I cannot postulate
miracles.  Thus, I must deduce that there are falsehoods in the bible.
Somebody is lying.  Because the extant documents are in substantial
agreement, the source of the fraud must be JC or very close to him.
Since you can't make omlettes without breaking eggs, I chose precise
and aggressive terms to see if I could stir a telling rebuttal.
I've yet to see anything that would invalidate my hypothesis.

It's surprising how simple an explantation the cabal theory is.  I consider
it sufficient to explain the NT.  If you want to get a feeling for how
such an operation would work, see the movie "Marjoe"; a semi-biographical
account of a real-life, fraudulent, faith-healing circuit preacher.

Conspiracy theories are common to many belief systems, especially 
religious ones.  There are really blatant examples, like the Hare Kishna
"anyone who isn't a Krishna is a demon, and you can't believe anything a
demon tells you."  And there are a fair number in the Bible, of varying
subtlety.  Such as the inference that asking to see a miracle makes you
like Satan.

If you think I don't stick to MY points, let me know where.

Thanks for your (mailed) apology for calling me a hack.  But are you
doing much better now that you are labelling me "unreasonably prejudiced"
and "programmatic"?

> 	In my opinion, Mike does not know much of anything about the
> scriptures, and this was what he was ostensibly commenting on by his
> accusations. I was pursuing the point at hand.

You may not have noticed, but I am quite aware of my limitations with
respect to scriptural interpretation, and seldom make comments based
on accurate scriptural interpretation.  (Which is a good candidate for
an oxymoron. :-)  I stick to things (usually) that most Christians would
consider historical events, such as the miracles.

> 	I wasn't talking about "popular acceptance", as such, but cross-
> cultural, international "acceptance". Please be fair to us, and simply
> read what I say. I am talking about universal appeal, not numbers. The
> Gospels are persuasive of the truth to people from all cultures. Of course,
> I do not believe that "popularity" makes right -- I am not a moral relativist.

There are numerous other religions whose sacred texts show this same
cross-cultural, international "acceptance".  Why don't I hear you citing
Mohammed, Ba'ha'ulla (sp?), Guru Maharesh Yogi, and others?  Probably
because your argument is simply a case of the fallacy of special pleading.

> 	As for China, as you may know, the state discourages religion, and
> replaces it with religious "socialism". But despite this repression,
> Christianity has not died there, and has recently increased during the
> present, more liberal government.

The same is true of Confucianism and a host of other religions.  So?
-- 

Mike Huybensz		...decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh