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From: manis@ubc-cs.UUCP (Vince Manis)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Zundel etc.
Message-ID: <1040@ubc-cs.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 30-Apr-85 21:04:45 EDT
Article-I.D.: ubc-cs.1040
Posted: Tue Apr 30 21:04:45 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 1-May-85 04:46:27 EDT
References: <7197@watdaisy.UUCP> <628@lsuc.UUCP> <1039@ubc-cs.UUCP>
Reply-To: manis@ubc-cs.UUCP (Vince Manis)
Distribution: can
Organization: UBC Department of Computer Science
Lines: 58
Summary: 

In article <1039@ubc-cs.UUCP> robinson@ubc-cs.UUCP (Jim Robinson) writes:
>In article <628@lsuc.UUCP> jimomura@lsuc.UUCP (Jim Omura) writes:
>>
>>     The point of prosecuting Zundel (and Keegstra) is to stop
>>society from swinging back to the type of environment wherein
>>it could happen again.  The fact that everythings nice and anti-
>>racist today, doesn't mean it'll stay that way.
>> 
>>     Reagan's recent comment seems to indicate that he's
>>forgotten the lesson.
>
>It was not a bunch of wacko private citizens who committed those crimes
>against humanity in WW2 - It was the duly elected *government* of Germany.
>Does anyone really think that any group, anywhere, could possibly 
>murder 6 million of their country's citizens without the *full* support 
>of the government? I don't.
>
>This suggests to me that the real lesson to remember is that when a
>people allow themselves to be intimidated and muzzled by their government,
>as the German people allowed their government to intimidate and muzzle
>them, then that people should not be surprised when the unthinkable
>occurs. 
>
>Needless to say, the easiest way to nip that potential problem in the bud
>is to *not* allow the government to assume an undue amount of power.

Well, actually, Jim, I'm afraid you've got your history a bit tangled.  In
fact, in any of the democratic elections held before 1933, the Nazis got a
minority of the votes. But, more importantly, the reason the Nazis ever
reached power was that the authority of the Weimar government was eroded to
the point that no government could rule.

The Weimar Republic allowed private armies (the SA and other Voelkisch storm
troops were opposed by the SDP's Reichsbanner) not for some ideological
reason, but rather because it lacked the political will to suppress them
(there certainly were government officials who supported private
armies--especially those of the right--but an account of the inability of
the Weimar government to do *anything* makes for depressing reading.
Finally, things got so bad (under Bruening) that the last year of the Weimar
government was essentially government by decree, because of the total lack
of authority the government possessed.

One might argue--very strongly--that had the Reich government acted against
Hitler after the 1923 putsch and sent him to prison for 10 or 20 years,
without possibility of parole, he would have vanished into obscurity.
Instead, even in 1923, the Bavarian government was too weak to stop him from
turning his trial into a soapbox; it gave him a slap on the wrist (two years
of imprisonment under quite luxurious conditions), and told him to sin no
more.

Now, I'm not comparing Zundel with Hitler: the latter was convicted of
treason, while Zundel was only found guilty of a glorified form of public
mischief (spreading false news). But the fact is that Zundel has abused his
freedom of speech to harm other people, and that's where the government has
to step in. I'm sure that Jim would appreciate the government acting on his
behalf to protect his rights; in the same way, I appreciate the government
acting (however unwillingly) to preserve my rights.