Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site bunker.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!bellcore!decvax!ittvax!bunker!garys
From: garys@bunker.UUCP (Gary M. Samuelson)
Newsgroups: net.politics,net.flame
Subject: Re: Re: On forgetting and forgiving
Message-ID: <830@bunker.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 6-May-85 12:05:49 EDT
Article-I.D.: bunker.830
Posted: Mon May  6 12:05:49 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 8-May-85 03:49:12 EDT
References: <1432@cornell.UUCP> <3686@alice.UUCP> <324@h-sc1.UUCP>
Organization: Bunker Ramo, Trumbull Ct
Lines: 46
Xref: watmath net.politics:8892 net.flame:9761

> I suggest the following:
> 
> 					Forget		Forgive
> 
> Individual soldiers, who can		No		Yes
>    be shown to have had no
>    authority
> The German army of WWII in 		No		No
>    general (including SS and others)
> Today's German people who still		No		No
>    hold prejudices against Jews
> Today's other German people		No		yes
> 
> So we won't forget anything, since knowledge is a Good Thing, but we'll
> forgive those who have (as far as can be determined) no guilt.  Isn't this
> nice and fair?
> 
> 	marie desjardins

Forgive those who have no guilt?  How?  They have nothing to be forgiven
for.  If anything, those who condemned those who have no guilt should
ask forgiveness, not presume to grant it.  I have been forgiven for
certain things I did; not because I had no guilt, but precisely because
I did, but the people I hurt loved me enough to accept me anyway.  And
because I asked for forgiveness, and said I would try to do better.

Now the Germans who were not responsible for the holocaust have no
need of forgiveness on that account.  We, on the other hand, who
have been guilty of prejudice, insofar as we lump all Germans
together, need to ask the innocent Germans to forgive us.

And the Germans who were not directly responsible for the holocaust,
but allowed it to happen through inaction, or feel that they were
partially responsible, need, perhaps, our forgiveness.  But we in
turn also need their forgiveness, for I am sure that the rest of
the world has laid more guilt on their shoulders than is theirs
to bear.

And the Germans who *were* directly responsible for the holocaust,
even *they* should be forgiven, if they (sincerely) *ask* forgiveness.
(Determining such sincerity is a non-trivial problem, which I
am disinclined to address at the moment.)  Even the greatest
humanitarian can become a scoundrel; even the worst scoundrel can
become a humanitarian.

Gary Samuelson