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From: ncg@ukc.UUCP (N.C.Gale)
Newsgroups: net.games.frp
Subject: Re: Paladins
Message-ID: <5107@ukc.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 12-May-85 11:12:02 EDT
Article-I.D.: ukc.5107
Posted: Sun May 12 11:12:02 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 7-May-85 21:15:04 EDT
References: <544@udenva.UUCP> <5085@ukc.UUCP> <619@whuxl.UUCP>
Reply-To: ncg@ukc.UUCP (Nige Gale)
Distribution: net
Organization: Computing Laboratory, U of Kent at Canterbury, UK
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Of Lawful Stupid Paladins...

So there's this thief, who's fighting for his life after checking a floor
for traps ahead of the party, and getting attacked from all sides by
wraiths. The only person who can save him is the Paladin, Devlin. If Devlin
leaps into the affray, he will almost certainly be killed, but the rest of the
party will get away. If he doesn't, the thief will cop it, but Devlin and the
rest of the party will get away.
Devlin is a more valuable member of the party than the thief (much more now the thief has lost a couple of levels). If Devlin gets away, rather than the thief,
the party will be that much less greedy, that much more able to combat evil.
So what does Devlin do?


I read Le Morte Dartur, which is a middle-English chivalric book(s) of
Arthurian Legends.
One knight who was clearly a Paladin (I think it was Bors de Ganis), 
somehow offended the hot-tempered Sir Gawain.
Sir Gawain chased him into a church, and started hacking at him, but Sir Bors
only defended himself with a shield, refusing to strike such a noble
lord (who he didn't want to harm).
A priest appeared on the scene, and flung himself between the two knights.
So Gawain cut his head off, and continued trying to beat the crap out of
Sir Bors (middle English phrase).
A maiden arrives, and hurls herself between the knights, and Gawain kills
her too.
Another passing knight, Sir Colgrevaunce, hears the noise, and comes into
the church. He rushes up and starts to defend Bors.
This makes Gawain very mad, so he turns his rage on Colgrevaunce, and soon
Sir Colgrevaunce is fighting for his own life, and losing.
He calls out to Bors:
"Why don't you come and help me, Bors, I only joined this bloody fight
to save your neck" (middle English again), but to no avail.
Eventually, Gawain kills Colgrevaunce, but when he at last gets to Bors,
his rage is gone, he apologises for his disgraceful behaviour, and everyone
is friends again.

Paladin's morals, no matter what religion, are not at all easy to define.

In the same book(s), Sir Bors is hailed by a witch in a castle, who says
that unless he comes into the castle and adulterises with her (Bors is
married), she will execute a dozen maidens that she has captive.
Bors wrestles with his conscience for a while, and then refuses to comply,
and goes away with 'paladinhood' intact. 

My feeling is that this is purely a GM decision, just as selling poisons,
using fire against unintelligent creatures, and killing hobgoblins
who have committed no crime, but probably will if you let them loose, also
are GM decisions. The GM might be swayed by the player giving enough
thought to the problem in hand to find the nicest solution.

(Oh yes, in the campaign I am GMing, no creature is always evil, and evil
creatures can have their alignment changed by being treated well, etc,
when they are captured. Except for demons. - neutral demons, now there's
an idea)

-Nige Gale