Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site watdcsu.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!watdcsu!mathnews From: mathnews@watdcsu.UUCP (mathNEWS) Newsgroups: net.college,net.cse,net.micro,net.micro.pc Subject: Re: Univ. of VT chooses AT&T pc's (long) Message-ID: <1312@watdcsu.UUCP> Date: Sat, 27-Apr-85 20:32:18 EDT Article-I.D.: watdcsu.1312 Posted: Sat Apr 27 20:32:18 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 28-Apr-85 08:15:12 EDT References: <376@uvm-cs.UUCP> <285@h-sc1.UUCP> <387@ho95b.UUCP> <5784@duke.UUCP> <10207@brl-tgr.ARPA> Reply-To: mathnews@watdcsu.UUCP (mathNEWS) Distribution: net Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario Lines: 134 Xref: watmath net.college:701 net.cse:369 net.micro:10158 net.micro.pc:3789 Summary: In article <10207@brl-tgr.ARPA> wmartin@brl-bmd.UUCP writes: >>>> > Burlington, Vermont; .... Incoming freshmen ...will be required to >>>> > purchase [AT&T 6300 PC] starting in the fall of 1985. Students will >>> >I think there are a couple issues in addition to those expressed above: > >1) Anybody going to a technical/engineering school these days or in the >near future will already have either spent a lot of time with computers >or bought their own computer. While there is something to be said in >favor of forcing an early familiarity with having to move between machines >and learning many different kinds of OS's and environments, I fear that >a school adopting this approach will have to waste much time forcing >each (or at least most) student to UNLEARN their already-acquired >computer skills to use the school-standard system. That is one nice thing about Waterloo--no standard system is imposed on students. Many have their own micros (or even archaic minis--my next-door neighbour in residence owned a PDP-8), so owning another one would be more than a minor inconvenience, even if the cost was divided over 4, 5 or 6 years (depending on regular/co-op/extra year combinations of study programs). As you mentioned, there is something to be said in favour (no apologies for Canadian/Brit spellings) of moving between machines and learning many kinds of environments. This is one aspect of Waterloo that I enjoy. We do not ``unlearn'' our ``mother OS;'' rather, we complement it with new ones. Not only does it make us more flexible: we get a more rounded view of computing systems, techniques for programming, and more exposure to strengths and weaknesses which should be incorporated, extended, reworked and avoided in future developments in which we may be involved. The co-op program reinforces and necessitates this variety of experience. >2) The obvious reason for standardizing is to allow distribution >of software, lessons on diskettes, communications, etc. Can't this >be achieved by FUNCTIONAL specifications instead of mandating >specific hardware brands? While quantity buying can cut prices on the >hardware, this also locks the community into total dependence on >a specific vendor. Yes, this is one reason for standardising, and functional specs are better than an imposed manufacturer. Waterloo has solved the problem (somewhat, anyway) by setting up microcomputer labs (some SuperPET (remember those?), some IBM PC, some DEC Rainbow, some of its own black boxes called microWATs) on a local network, with a shared hard disk or file system of some sort. Lessons, assignment resources, data files, and so on are kept in a directory specifically for the course using them. Deals can be arranged (if the software vendor/ manufacturer is reasonable) to have a copy of a package such as Wordstar or Lotus on the hard disk in a network environment. The Ontario Ministry of Education is negotiating special licenses with many software developers for using packages in a shared resource/networked environment in schools. Since each student would not own a copy of the piece of software under this scheme, it would be easy to go to a new software package if the current one became inadequate, or the vendor became too troublesome to bother with. > >3) Those out there concerned about software theft and unauthorized >duplication/copying should look at this sort of thing with terror >in their hearts. I can't think of a situation more likely to >encourage such practices. There is nothing more satisfying to a first-year student than breaking someone's copy-protection scheme, except breaking in to the school's mark-processing mainframe. Some micro networks at Waterloo do not have disk drives so copies of programs cannot be made from these systems. Some software currently available checks that the copy being loaded is a legitimate copy. If, in a networked micro environment, a program is copied from the hard disk to a floppy and an attempt is made to load this copy, the loader should check some characteristic of the device or medium it is being loaded from to see if it is an authentic copy. Of course, this does not prevent more devious/educated students from entering a debugger, reading the file and patching the code to make their floppy version work. (At Waterloo this might not be a problem. Campus security, during the Christmas break, raided the two University-run residences and removed all traffic and commercial signs that a student would not normally own. Perhaps next year they'll add illegal software to their search list... :-() > >4) Not too far down the line, the school and alumni will have an >enormous stock of now-obsolete systems and software. Since so much >of the school's operation and practices will by then depend on >living in a totally-automated, PC-dominated environment, having to >make periodic mass changes to keep up with the improvements in >the computer industry (which a school will HAVE to do to stay >competitive) will cost so much and cause such disruption that >every n years the school will, in effect, disintegrate into >chaos for some months while everyone flails about getting changed over. Nice thing about this place. Nothing stays exactly the same. One term we'll be on the Honeywell DPS8/49 (we've modified the operating system and utilities to make it actually somewhat useful as a teaching machine), the next we'll use the Honeywell, IBM's and Student CMS, and (of course) VAXen with Unix. The micros are used for first-year and two second-year courses. If a system becomes obsolete or useless, it's replaced or the course is moved to another machine. The only problem is getting enough VAXen to serve 2000 students in the Faculty of Mathematics, while leaving one for the rogue players. >(I forsee some fun garage sales, though...) Wanna buy a used 4341? :-) There are, then, alternatives to forcing students to buy a particular computer. A student will have enough imposed on him/her while studying at university. There is no need to force a $6-8K computer on them as well when there are viable alternatives that, in the long run, appear to benefit everyone concerned, not just the university. regards, dwarf (W. Jim Jordan) (yes, I actually study here) -- "Damn the integrals, full speed ahead!" mathNEWS--the math student newspaper at the University of Waterloo {allegra|clyde|linus|ihnp4|decvax}!watmath!watdcsu!mathnews UUCP mathnews%watdcsu@waterloo.csnet CSNET mathnews@watdcsu NETNORTH