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From: mms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: How does education help all of us? Reply to Sykora
Message-ID: <1340036@acf4.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 24-Apr-85 22:21:00 EST
Article-I.D.: acf4.1340036
Posted: Wed Apr 24 22:21:00 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 26-Apr-85 23:45:21 EST
References: <593@whuxl.UUCP>
Organization: New York University
Lines: 85

>/* orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER) /  2:50 pm  Apr 23, 1985 */

>> It is certainly true that education benefits us all.  But what about the
>> net benefits?  Education isn't free.  I'm afraid "there is no doubt
>> about it" is not a convincing argument.  How about some facts to back that
>> up?
 
>However I do not think you realize the point of Dennison's study
>of the impact of improved education. The point was that investments
>in improved education provided more economic growth per dollar than
>investments in physical capital.  Again, I would like to point out
>that this is a very commonsense proposition.  One could invest enormous
>sums of money in the capital needed to make candles or one could
>develop the incandescent bulb and produce many times the light of
>ordinary candles for the small price of a mass produced light bulb.
>While Edison had his problems with schoolteachers I doubt even his
>inventive talents would have gotten very far without the ability to read
>and write.

The "point" of Dennison's study!?

I'm not familiar with the study, but I have a hard time imagining what
sort of control group one might use for such an "experiment."

How about some sort of cost/benefit analysis!?

There are some fundamental differences between the education of 
human beings and the production of lighting equipment.  First of all,
what type of education are we talking about (and who decides this?) ?
Furthermore, if you "invest" in people, you are taking a much bigger
risk, because you don't know if you are going to get any return on
your investment.


> . . . Would immigrants children
>have learned English or American culture as quickly as they did
>without their immersion into the diversity of students in public schools?
>I think that it is *extremely* doubtful.

Judging from my own experience (my parents are immigrants) I can't say
I find it doubtful.  I have never attended a public school (except 
kindergarten).  I attended parochial primary and secondary schools, and 
if I haven't learned enough about "English or American culture," I feel 
no worse off for it.  On the contrary, in a nation of conformists like 
America (okay, probably all nations are nations of conformists  --  perhaps
America is relatively non-conformist, but I personally find it too
conformist) perhaps less stress on American culture would be better.
 
>> Furthermore, by interfering in the market for education, the government
>> has created distortions.  The result of these distortions is that it
>> is now more difficult to succeed without "credentials."
 
>Two points here: One, is that it is probably more fair to judge people
>on the basis of "credentials" which everybody has the opportunity to
>obtain than on the basis of credentials, such as college education,
>graduate professional degrees, and so forth which in the past were limited
>primarily to the wealthy.

Huh? - I don't follow your argument.

What about human capital?

> . . . If Libertarians wish to critique
>bureaucracy (which I believe is at the heart of many of their complaints)
>they will not find much solace in the modern corporate economy.  With

Please don't tell me what is in my heart  --  I'm trying to keep it
a secret!

>every merger and giant conglomerate swallowed whole by an even bigger
>gargantuan conglomerate the economy moves towards more centralization and
>bureacratization: independently of anything the government does.
>As impersonal corporate bureaucracy grows, so grows the use of credentials.
>                  tim sevener   whuxl!orb
>/* ---------- */

You are probably right that if the economy becomes more bureaucratized
then credentials become more important, but this does not mean that
gov't. interference in the education market does not add to the
importance of credentials.  Furthermore, it is not apparent that you
have considered the possibility that gov't. policy has created an
incentive toward bureaucratization.


					Michael Sykora