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From: dmcanzi@watdcsu.UUCP (David Canzi)
Newsgroups: net.politics,net.flame
Subject: Re: Re: Personal Defense
Message-ID: <1345@watdcsu.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 5-May-85 19:47:48 EDT
Article-I.D.: watdcsu.1345
Posted: Sun May  5 19:47:48 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 6-May-85 01:56:57 EDT
References: <350@idis.UUCP> <497@abnji.UUCP> <572@ahuta.UUCP> <1289@watdcsu.UUCP> <1066@utcsri.UUCP>
Reply-To: dmcanzi@watdcsu.UUCP (David Canzi)
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 56
Xref: watmath net.politics:8860 net.flame:9734
Summary: 

Tom West:
>  However the States is the major source of handguns.  Assuming that they
>are no longer being made there, it's going to be a long hard haul to get
>a handgun.  ...
>  The idea is not so much stopping them at the border ...
>       but drying up the #1 supplier of freely accessible handguns in the
>world, the US.

The point you originally made, that I disagreed with, was that banning
guns would eventually disarm the criminals, not just the law-abiding.
Even if guns are banned in the US and Canada, smuggling them from
Mexico is not going to be all that hard.

Even if the border with Mexico is perfectly sealed, guns can still be
smuggled by boat. The authorities can't go around stopping and
questioning all the fishermen.  It's relatively easy to move the guns
northward within the US; any moving van heading that way will contain
some empty space.  And I don't think it's much of a problem to get guns
from the US to Canada across the Longest Undefended Border In The
World.  Just carry them across in any wooded area.  All of this will,
of course, make the guns more expensive to the "consumer", but in the
hands of a competent armed robber, the gun will still pay for itself
fairly quickly.

Oh, and by the way, if possession of handguns is legal in St. Pierre,
then getting guns to needy Canadian criminals may be easier still.

Regarding another of your comments:
>                                                      (although remember
>that they're *metal* and thus can't really be imported on airlplanes to
>well.)

Assume the worst, ie. something like the Berlin Wall completely
surrounding the country.  Suppose that you have a Cessna 152 (the first
in a series of deliberately pessimistic assumptions) and two nice
grassy areas to take off and land approximately 20 miles
(pessimistically) from the border on each side.  The plane can carry
two men and a limited amout of luggage.  Take the copilot and his seat
out, and replace with a crate of guns and ammunition weighing about the
same.  Say, 150 pounds.  Put further guns and ammunition in the back,
about 50 pounds.  Assume, pessimistically, that this only allows 10
guns with a reasonable amount of ammunition.  The round trip of 40
miles each way takes about an hour (assuming 70 knots, in a plane that
cruises at 90 knots).  At our local flying club, the cost of a plane
and pilot for one hour is about 70 dollars (actually, a bit less).
Assume a "reasonable" black-market markup to 700 dollars.  The result
is that smuggling this way adds 70 dollars to the cost of each gun.
That's not too bad, and remember, it's based on *pessimistic*
assumptions.  Cropdusters living near the border would have a fine
opportunity to supplement their incomes.
--
	David Canzi

It is the final proof of God's omnipotence that he need not exist in
order to save us.
	Peter De Vries