Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site trwatf.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!trwatf!root From: root@trwatf.UUCP (Lord Frith) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Remembering the Holocaust: What have we learned? Message-ID: <896@trwatf.UUCP> Date: Sat, 27-Apr-85 11:55:54 EDT Article-I.D.: trwatf.896 Posted: Sat Apr 27 11:55:54 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 28-Apr-85 07:43:38 EDT References: <1019@phs.UUCP> <912@pyuxd.UUCP> <262@ihu1n.UUCP> <885@trwatf.UUCP> <5213@fortune.UUCP> Organization: TRW Advanced Technology Facility, Merrifield VA. Lines: 85 >> In article <885@trwatf.UUCP> root@trwatf.UUCP (Lord Frith) writes: >> There is another way to "oppose" hate-baiting and that is to ignore his >> words. A response from you is just what the "hate-baiter" wants to fuel >> disention. To ignore his words renders them just so many useless bytes. > > Sure, but the "ignore it and it might go away" philosophy has proven to be > ineffective every time it has been tried in this century. Remember Hitler's > rise to power with very similar ideals. Different situation entirely. What is this "it" that might go away? it doesn't exist yet, and until there does exist a bonefide threat I see no reason to waste my time overreacting to every tin-plated little facist with a radical ideology. They're kind are a dime a dozen. This doesn't mean blinding one's self to a realistic threat, neither does it mean foaming at the mouth every time someone makes an anti-semetic remark. It means examining the situation calmly and responding (if a repsonse is warrented) in a mature fashion. Thermal detonators should do the job ;-) You can't condemn Don Black for crimes against humanity BEFORE the fact because so far he hasn't actually DONE anything. > Identity Christianity types are spreading throughout the middle of our > country *now*. Whether they are spreading faster than more enlightened > philosophies is open to question, but they certainly make more noise > (and stockpile automatic weapons). Now you're just frothing at the mouth. No fanatical minority is going to throw anyone into concentration camps in this country. And how odd that you should think that the Identity Christian movement will start putting people in concentration camps. Public executions too I'll bet. Let's not forget the torture dungeons. This is an exagerated and radical view in itself and, like your response to Don Black, an overreaction. > When and if you decide to respond, it may be that your responce is to > late to have any effect except getting you tossed into the > concentration camps with the rest of us. When I repsond it will be towards a real, and not potential, threat. If "they" want to throw me into a concentration camp then I'll be waiting for "them" with an AK-7. > >Of course, you might argue that without a direct response, his hateful > >diatribe will become a fanatical hate organization and the ignorant human > >flotsam will cling to his cause. But here again it isn't the words > >that are doing the harm... it's the people that are goaded into > >taking his words to heart. People will believe what they want to believe. > >When hate like this gets the sanction of the state or of the education > >system... THAT'S when you start getting twitchy. > > Please note that hate like this has semi-official recognition from the state > *now* with the close ties that RR has with Jerry Falwell's crowd. If this were a dictatorship I might be worried. So far, Ronnie's relationship with the fundementalist right has been purely political. The Jerry Falwell crowd may be able to sway the outward appearance of politics, but they haven't really touched the inner workings of government. Close ties are just that... close ties and nothing more. >> I do agree, however, that if Mr. Black's beliefs follow his reputation, >> then he certainly needs a good swift intellectual kick up side the head. > > Vigorously oppose is indeed what we should be doing with these ideas > of Mr. Don Black. Constantly. Loudly. The best place to vigorously oppose Don Black is within yourself. Understand his position well enough to know it for what it is, and educate (not indoctrinate, but educate) others so that they will know his flawed and hateful thinking for what it is. That is the best response you can make. What most of you have overlooked is that the wrong done by Don Black is not in his articles, but in the minds of the people that actually believe what he says. That's where the real front exists. You can't eliminate hate groups by censoring or "opposing" their views in a shouting match. -- UUCP: ...{decvax,ihnp4,allegra}!seismo!trwatf!root - Lord Frith ARPA: trwatf!root@SEISMO "Markland needs women!"