Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site zinfan.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!zinfan!dellinge From: dellinge@zinfan.UUCP (Ken Dellinger) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Pickin' bones with Mormans (sic) Message-ID: <80@zinfan.UUCP> Date: Thu, 2-May-85 01:17:37 EDT Article-I.D.: zinfan.80 Posted: Thu May 2 01:17:37 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 3-May-85 23:44:07 EDT References: <1922@decwrl.UUCP> Organization: DEC Western Region Operations, Santa Clara, CA Lines: 162 After reading Ken Arndt's bigoted and erroneous posting of April 30, 1985, I am so annoyed by his blatant disregard for truth that I must respond. So here goes. If I make anyone mad, tough beans! 1. You reject the need to ask God for confirmation of the truth of His word as recorded and interpreted by fallible men. The assumption that the present Bible has been in its current form since it was passed down by word of mouth, then written in Hebrew, then translated into Greek and subsequently, English, is ludicrous! Considering the wide variety of Bible translations, I suggest that a prudent person will study the Bible he/she possesses and then turn to God for confirmation of His word. 2. You claim that ``What the Mormans (sic) [I would like to take this opportunity to point out that your blatant disregard for truth extends to the simple truths of correct spelling] are really saying is that the Book of Morman (sic) and the teachings of the Morman (sic) Church that stem from the `prophet' Smith, supercedes the rest of the Bible. How does one actually get to KNOW this?'' At no time have either the leaders or the teachings of my church claimed to ``supercede'' the teachings of Christ inasmuch as they are recorded CORRECTLY in the Bible. The Books of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrine & Covenants simply confirm and expand the teachings of the Bible. Obviously, one gets to KNOW this by studying the scriptures and then asking God to confirm the truth of what he/she has read. No one can truly possess a testimony of Christ and His ministry based solely upon the testimony of others. Your testimony must be based on personal experience, study, prayer and revelation or it will not withstand the batterings of a Godless world. Just as few rational persons demand that you accept the word of an ``authority'' without confirmation, so we are exhorted to turn to the Lord in prayer to receive answers to our questions. To quote a prophet whom you vilify ``Search the scriptures - search the revelations which we publish, and ask your Heavenly Father, in the names of His Son Jesus Christ, to manifest the truth unto you, and if you do it with an eye single to His glory nothing doubting, He will answer you by the power of His Holy Spirit. You will then know for yourselves and not for another. You will not then be dependent on man for the knowledge of God; nor will there be any room for speculation.'' 3. ``But lo there are mucho Morman (sic) groups that don't speak to each other as well. Golly.'' There is one and only one Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (also nicknamed Mormon or LDS). To say that any splinter groups are also Mormons is akin to claiming that all Baptists are really Catholics. 4. ``Prayer about what, obedience to what, study of what?'' Study of the scriptures (Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price), and all continuing revelation as revealed by the current prophet, Spencer W. Kimball. Obedience to the teachings and commandments of God the Father and His son Jesus Christ. Prayer to God the Father and Jesus Christ to ask for confirmation or revelation of truths; to seek guidance in ALL aspects of life; and to thank God and Christ for our many blessings. 5. ``Either God speaks and one can repeat it or not.'' Certainly God and Christ speak to those who listen. But all people, unless they are chosen and ordained by God as prophets, receive revelation ONLY for themselves and their immediate families, not for the whole of mankind. The choice of whether or not to share or repeat personal revelation, is of course up to the individual. 6. ``No I work with Mormans (sic). They are swell people. I like them a lot . . . . But they are wrong about God! And cursed for it!'' This sounds remarkably like the rationalizations Christians have used for centuries to justify their unChristian treatment of other people. For example, the never-ending and unjust persecution of the Jews has throughout history been prefaced by similar remarks. Not to mention the American treatment of the native Indians, blacks, American Japanese and German descendants during WWII, Hispanics, etc, and the world-wide mistreatment of other minorities. All prefaced by words which contain little of ``charity, the pure love of Christ.'' (Moroni 7:47, I Corinthians 13). 7. ``Christ says, `I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the trea of life and in the holy city.' (Rev. 22: 18-19)'' My Revelations 22: 18-19 actually reads ``For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.'' First, this book is written by the Apostle John. It is a record of the revelations he received from Christ. It is John who is actually writing these words. Second, according to Bible scholars, this revelation was written sometime between A.D. 64 and 96. John himself wrote another book, The Gospel According to St. John, much later. Third, at that time the books of the Bible were not compiled in the same order that they are in the current Bibles. Therefore, John was obviously warning against anyone adding to or subtracting from the revelations he had received and written while banished upon the Isle of Patmos. This does not prevent God from adding to revelation any time he pleases! Furthermore, in the Gospel According to St. Matthew, Matthew refers to Jesus as a Nazarene, or a native of Nazareth (Matthew 2:23). He further says that this is a fulfillment of an earlier prediction. However, no such saying of the prophets is found in any of the books contained in the Bible, which suggests that some scripture has been lost. You might be interested to note that there are many books of scripture mentioned in the Bible which we do not currently have. Including the following: The Book of the Covenant (Exo. 24:7); Book of the Wars of the Lord (Numb. 21:14); Book of Jasher (Josh. 10:13); Book of the Statutes (I Sam. 10:25); Book of Enoch (Jude 14); Book of the Acts of Solomon (I Kings 11:41); Book of Nathan the Prophet and Gad the Seer (I Chron. 29:29); Books of Ahijah the Shilonite and the Visions of Iddo the Seer (2 Chron. 9:29); Book of Shemaiah (2 Chron. 12:15); Story of the Prophet Iddo (2 Chron. 13:22); Book of Jehu (2 Chron. 20: 34); the Acts of Uzziah, by Isaiah the son of Amoz (2 Chron. 26:22); Sayings of the Seers (2 Chron. 33:19); a missing epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (I Cor. 5:9) a missing epistle to the Ephesians (Eph. 3:3); a missing epistle to the Colossians, written from Laodicea (Col. 4:16); a missing epistle of Jude (Jude 3). Finally, may I direct your attention to Deuteronomy 4:2, which reads ``Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.'' Are you ready to reject all the books of the Bible which follow Deuteronomy, Mr. Arndt? Tammi Wright Ken Dellinger (Both members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) ``And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, ``In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: ``Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.'' (2 Thessalonians 1: 7-9) -- Ken Dellinger Digital Equipment Corporation 9570 S.W. Barbur Blvd. Portland, OR 97219 / decvax \ anywhere! < > !decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-pd750!dellingke \ ucbvax / * UNIX is a trademark of A.T.& T. 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