Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site mtx5b.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!houxm!vax135!ariel!mtx5b!mat From: mat@mtx5b.UUCP (Mark Terribile) Newsgroups: net.religion,net.religion.christian Subject: Re: What does it mean to be a Christian? Message-ID: <1396@mtx5b.UUCP> Date: Sat, 4-May-85 04:01:36 EDT Article-I.D.: mtx5b.1396 Posted: Sat May 4 04:01:36 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 5-May-85 02:11:19 EDT References: <5802@duke.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ Lines: 102 Xref: watmath net.religion:6821 net.religion.christian:696 >> Do the Christians on the net really believe the lesson of Christ's life >> was to abandon all other social goals to prepare to incinerate the >> planet? > > Do not be quick to dismiss modern Christians as followers of Reagan >or as apathetic. Many are, and that is regrettable. But there are many >of us who are actively working, right now, to try to persuade the >U.S. government to refrain from engaging in (or supporting) war for >American self-interest, to stop using Christian-sounding statements > . . . . > While I understand the desire to prevent the establishment of a >repressive government in Central America, it disturbs me that our government >would easily resort to a military solution (that is, that they would attempt a >military solution before all other means of conflict resolution have >been tried and shown to be futile). More significantly, it disturbs >many other Christians as well. There is concern and action for peace >by Christians in this country; and this is action in the "real world", I don't consider myself apathetic; I do like to think of myself as a Christian. I am disturbed deeply by this article, and by the attitude of my church as well. Is war the worst thing that can happen? Can peace never be worse than war? Here are some thoughts that I hope you will find one half as disturbing as I find distressing: I recall hearing about a parade a couple of weeks ago: a parade to honor Viet Nam veterans. Today, more than 50% of the people in this country feel that that war was wrong from the start. Well, among those who turned out for that parade there was a group of several dozen Vietnamese ``boat people''. Now during all the years that we were at war in Southeast Asia, during the years of forced conscription of Vietnamese citizens (remember WE had forced conscription, too) I never heard of people abandoning the country to cross the Pacific in sampans. But now they are abandoning the country under the first peace that the region has known in a generation. Could it be that life under the current government is worse than the war with its Mai Lai and napalm and ...? What about nuclear weapons? How can we justify having THEM? Have you any idea how toxic today's nerve gasses are? A drop the size of a grain of sand on your skin will kill you in two minutes. These compounds aren't new. The Germans had them during WWII. Why didn't Hitler use them? Because British Intelligence succeeded in convincing Hitler that the British had the same thing. That is deterrence. If British Intelligence had not succeeded ... If Warmongers and antiChrists like Churchill and Roosevelt had not prepared for war while veryone else negotiated, or prided themselves on how civilized they were ... Dear God! what might have happened! It almost did, you know. With just a little more determination on Goering's part, the Battle of Britain would have gone the other way. Let us all thank God for the people who made that war come out all right. Is Christianity doomed to fail? Must we accept the role of barbarians? I don't think so. But if we wish to have the freedom in which we CAN love one another ... in which we CAN spread the word of the Gospel, then we must be prepared to make sacrifices. Being prepared to stand in defense against an enslaver is not unChristian. Handing yourself and others over to him probably is. The questions with South America aren't all that simple. As to diplomatic solutions, I seem to recall that the Sandinistas were originally backed by the US -- until they took over and the promises they made to us about freedom became an obligation. Then they embraced the USSR. How far should we trust them in a diplomatic solution? Accepting the assurances of a known liar and allowing him to rule people with an iron claw is not working for the ideals that Christ espoused. I don't recall Jesus ever saying that we should become helpless. Blessed are those who ARE helpless, for their Father in heaven shall see that they get their due, but what of those who make themselves helpless -- and refuse to help others, either? Let us say that Ferdinand Marcos, to take an example, were to be replaced by a ruler who danced on a Soviet string. Would the people of the Phillipines be any better off then they were yesterday? I doubt it. Would they be better off 20 years from now? In twenty years, Mr. Marcos AND his wife may well have died of old age ... or palace intrigue. There is a good chance that whatever government replaced them would have less power than he does, and would HAVE to look to either the people for support ... or to the USSR. But if we remain friendly with everyone there, we have a chance to make things better. Look at Spain. I DO want peace. Desperately. Because if war came either I would have to fight or I wouldn't. In one case, I would be placing my life at the disposal of the war. In the other, I would be ashamed that I wasn't. But I could not be ashamed to fight for the rights of people to live without a machine gun at their necks. I could be ashamed for allowing it to happen. And many could die in that shame. Thy kingdom come Thy will be done On earth As it is in Heaven ... -- from Mole End Mark Terribile (scrape .. dig ) hou4b!mat on 5/1/85 ..,,. mtx5b!mat ,.. .,, ,,, ..,***_*.