Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site sbcs.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!sbcs!debray From: debray@sbcs.UUCP (Saumya Debray) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: sexist language/bad attitudes Message-ID: <250@sbcs.UUCP> Date: Thu, 25-Apr-85 14:32:14 EST Article-I.D.: sbcs.250 Posted: Thu Apr 25 14:32:14 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 27-Apr-85 03:18:11 EST References: <846@druxo.UUCP> <674@wlcrjs.UUCP> <299@mhuxr.UUCP> <1039@utcsri.UUCP> Organization: Computer Science Dept, SUNY@Stony Brook Lines: 78 Tom West: > There are those who claim that 'he' is the gender neutral pronoun in the > English language. They are, in a grammatical sense, correct. The problem > comes with the people. When the term 'he' is used, a *male* image is > thought of, regardless of the fact that the term was supposed to be neutral. > [...] Specifically, the language is pushing forward the idea that women > play an almost totally insignificant part in our society outside of a few > restricted roles. More importantly, the language re-inforces the idea > that this set of roles is expected and accepted by society at large. This is an example of the fairly sloppy post hoc egro propter hoc reasoning that seems to be becoming increasingly prevalent these days. As Tom points out, studies have shown that "when the term 'he' is used, a *male* image is thought of". So far, this merely establishes a correlation between the two events. How one can infer, from this correlation, that there's some sort of causal connection between the two isn't clear to me. It reminds me of an article in net.flame a while back, suggesting that portable radios should be banned because of the correlation between high incidence of ghetto blasters and high crime rates in big cities. Let me give a few examples. The chances are that if I mention "fireman" to you, you'll think of a male; let me suggest that this is due _not_ to the fact that there's a "-man" suffix, but because practically all the firemen you've ever seen have been males. Similarly, when I say "cheerleader", the chances are you'll think of a young female ... let me suggest, again, that this is because almost all the cheerleaders you've seen have been young females. Note that there's nothing in the word that suggests that a cheerleader couldn't be a middle-aged male: it's your experience of the world that biases your perception of the word. What's going on is some sort of inductive inference ... if you saw enough middle-aged male cheerleaders, I dare say this bias would change. Similarly, not having known of very many young black female presidents of the USA, when I say "President of the United States", you'll probably think of a middle-aged white male. On the other hand, if I say "Prime Minister", I would suspect you wouldn't have a pronounced bias towards either sex, since there have been quite a few female prime ministers (Golda Meir, Indira Gandhi and Margaret Thatcher come to mind). Again, take the word "chef": most people I know associate this with males wearing funny white hats. It's not obvious to me how gender-specificity might have been built into this word. The point I'm trying to make is that even when some sort of correlation has been established between a word and some sort of mental image conjured up by that word, it _does not_ follow that there's a causal link between them. I've tried to show, using a few examples, that a strong case can be made for experiential generalization being the cause of the particular mental image - I'm sure you can find many other such examples. Now until you can demonstrate a convincing causal relationship between the use of "he" and the conjuring up of a mental "male" image, I'll view your attempts to change my world-view by changing my language as an attempt to treat the symptom rather than the disease (Sapir-Whorf and George Orwell notwithstanding!). And if you can't demonstrate such a causal relationship, well, that's a pretty serious flaw in your argument, isn't it? I'd suggest that you try to get more women into the work force, fighting fires and delivering mail: that, I think, would be more effective in changing the "male" image associated with "fireman" and "postman" than any amount of linguistic twiddling. The reason for this long article is that I resent being labelled as one who is "just whining in the face of facts about how we actually use the language" when it's not at all clear what these so-called "facts about how we actually use the language", and the causal relationships between them, actually are. Maybe this comes as a surprise, but correct grammar _is_ important to some of us - not because of some esoteric dogma, but because sloppy grammar makes for awkward language. The defence rests. -- Saumya Debray SUNY at Stony Brook uucp: {allegra, hocsd, philabs, ogcvax} !sbcs!debray arpa: debray%suny-sb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa CSNet: debray@sbcs.csnet