Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!henry
From: henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Inflamatory comparison involving Jews, Nazis, Zundel, Keegstra
Message-ID: <5589@utzoo.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 11-May-85 19:58:05 EDT
Article-I.D.: utzoo.5589
Posted: Sat May 11 19:58:05 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 11-May-85 19:58:05 EDT
References: <638@lsuc.UUCP> <1061@ubc-cs.UUCP>, <266@looking.UUCP>
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
Lines: 43

> To repeat, I am not saying the death camps weren't there.  I am NOT saying
> that Jews are like Nazis or use Nazi tactics.  I am saying that that we are
> guilty of doing similar things, to a far lesser degree...

I fail to see any guilt involved, actually.  What you have presented is
an excellent demonstration of a basic fact:  Jews and Nazis cannot share
the universe in peace.  It is silly to blame the Jews, however lightly and
apologetically, for recognizing this and acting accordingly.  The Jews are
blameworthy [is that a word?] only if a better way exists and they are not
pursuing it.  I see none.  It is a popular myth that there is *always* some
sort of compromise position that will let everyone live happily ever after.

> one shouldn't
> be thrown in jail for saying what "everybody knows is false."  That logic
> jailed Galileo, and burned Bruno at the stake.

C'mon, Brad, you can come up with better examples than that.  Citing
Galileo and Bruno is such a common tactic that it turns people off,
especially considering some of the uses it's put to.  It is also, by the
way, a largely-false misconception.  Galileo was jailed for stating his
respectable, widely-supported (even by some Church astronomers) theories
as proven facts, which they were not, and for invoking improper theological
arguments to support them (a bad move, since he was not a theologian and
didn't understand the religious issues involved).  If the man had been a
bit more polite, he might never have gotten into trouble; the last straw
was a book which had an obvious moron representing the Church viewpoint in
a fictitious debate.  Bruno was, roughly speaking, a nut, and the helio-
centric universe formed only a minor part of his odd beliefs.  Even Kepler
thought him insane.

Semmelweiss [sp?] would be a more realistic example.  Or your later mention
of Luther, since there was a time when the Church would cheerfully have
burned him at the stake if they had gotten their hands on him.

Returning to the subject... "the University Theater in Toronto was on fire
at 2000 EDT 7 May 1985" is something that everybody knows is false.  But
if I'd shouted "fire" in that place at that time, I might well have gone
to jail.  For good reason, too; theater panics kill people.  Clearly there
are circumstances where it *is* appropriate to punish someone for statements
that are thought to be incorrect, Galileo and Bruno notwithstanding.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry