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From: markg@nvuxf.UUCP (M. Guzdial)
Newsgroups: net.cse
Subject: re: AT&T 6300 at UVM
Message-ID: <110@nvuxf.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 17-May-85 12:56:16 EDT
Article-I.D.: nvuxf.110
Posted: Fri May 17 12:56:16 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 19-May-85 09:42:24 EDT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Red Bank, NJ
Lines: 72

princeton!tilt!chenr writes;
>The year I took the OS course, the final project was writing a
>stripped-down, multi-tasking, Unix-style kernel.  The next year
>I think it was a queuing simulation.  The compiler people write
>compilers.  My year we implemented a full Algol-style language
>(arrays, subroutines, scoping, the whole bit) in LISP.  This 
>year, they're implementing a somewhat stripped down version of C
>using lex and yacc.
>
>The operating systems course and compiler course are considered to be
>"core" courses for computer science majors.  Independent work 
>is "strongly suggested" and will soon be required.
>
>A list of independent CS projects include design and implementation of
>a window-oriented editor, investigating Chinese character recognition,
>investigation of hidden surface and shading algorithms, investigating
>the behavior of cellular automata, implementing an ethernet driver,
>investigating crash recovery mechanisms, design and implementation
>of a cellular automata simulation machine.

I think that most of the projects you list could be handled adequately
on an AT&T 6300.  My own familiarity is with the IBM PC not the 6300,
but latter is supposed to be a "compatible" and faster than the original
by some 60%, so I think my arguments will still hold.

A "stripped-down, multi-tasking, Unix-style kernel" can basically be
written on just about anything.  PC/IX and Venix prove it can be done,
even without being "stripped-down" in a PC-style environment.  In the
early 80's, a product came out called "ANIX" which gave a UNIX style
environment to Apple programmers.  MANX software still markets a similar
product.  Again, a "queuing simulation" is a machine independent project
which may be developed under any environment.

Compilers exist, even Algol style compilers (e.g., Pascal), for everything
from Commodore-64s to AT&T 6300's.  LISP doesn't run on everything, but it
is available in a useful form on PC-compatibles as Golden Hill Common
Lisp.  The manufacturer quotes programmers from the MIT AI Lab as saying
that they can develop code in this environment and upload it as-is to
their Symbolics processor, thus indicating that this Lisp is not a "toy"
environment.  For some applications, the recursive and list-oriented 
nature of Logo can suffice when Lisp is not available.  C can also 
be developed and used on PCs, though without lex and yacc.  
The compiler writers must develop their own parsers, which is a useful 
educational experience in itself:-).

Many "window-oriented editors" exist for PC environments, including Emacs
and esp, as well as the new TopView, Windows, and GEM environments.
Ethernet is designed to machine independent and should certainly be usable
on a microcomputer.  Cellular Automata, by their nature as models of
computation, are implementable on any digital computer.

Note well that I did leave out the Chinese character recognition, the
investigation of hidden surface and shading algorithms, and design and
implementation of a "cellular automata simulation machine."  Graphics and
image processing often require a great deal of CPU horsepower, so these
might not be comfortably implemented on a small machine (though "hidden
surface algorithms" should be testable on a 6300-style box).  Since I'm
not familiar with CAD on a PC, I couldn't say that designing a machine would
be do-able on a PC.

My point is that a microcomputer IS acceptable for most of an undergrad
CS student's workload.  I see the 6300 as being representative of any
"standard" microcomputer of today's marketplace.  Being an advocate of
the personal computer dreams of Alan Kay and Adele Goldberg, for example,
as described in "Personal Dynamic Media," I would like to see more powerful
microcomputers AS THE STANDARD.  But going beyond the industry standard 
would tend to become expensive, thus eliminating the benefit of placing
a microcomputer as an integral part of the college experience by making
the college experience too highly-priced.

 Mark