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From: rlh@cvl.UUCP (Ralph L. Hartley)
Newsgroups: net.origins
Subject: in Order to Order the Order
Message-ID: <395@cvl.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 7-May-85 10:54:55 EDT
Article-I.D.: cvl.395
Posted: Tue May  7 10:54:55 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 10-May-85 02:08:27 EDT
Organization: Computer Vision Lab, U. of Maryland, College Park
Lines: 36



>> Try an experiment:  take some
>> water and freeze it in your refrigirator.  That water entropy
>> will decrease (ice is more ordered than liquid water).  However,
>> the enropy of its surrounding will increase!

> Complexity, not symmetry, is required.

@#*%$%#& !!!!

Then why do you keep shouting about the second law of thermodynamics?
So far as I know, the laws of thermoddynamics say NOTHING about
complexity.

> The problems arises from the multiple definitions of the word "order".
> Most of us (myself included in SOR pamphlet #2) are quite sloppy with
> our terms in this instance.

But thermodynamics is NOT slopy in it's definition.  You seem to be
trying to EXPLOIT the multiple definitions people use.  If you call
complexity order does the second law of thermodynamics make it
imposible for complexity to increase?  Word games!  If you call leaves
money do leaves not grow on trees?

For examples and analysis of how order (complexity) can arise spontainiously
in simple systems written by someone who knows what he is talking about
try

H.  Haken, _Synergetics An Introduction Nonequilibrium Phase
Transitions and Self Organisation in Physics, Chemistry and Biology_,
Springer-Verlag, 1983.

Mostly phisics, tough going I'm afraid.

				Ralph Hartley