Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site psivax.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen
From: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: Penses
Message-ID: <446@psivax.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 13-May-85 14:20:41 EDT
Article-I.D.: psivax.446
Posted: Mon May 13 14:20:41 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 16-May-85 20:17:09 EDT
References: <1655@decwrl.UUCP> <45200003@hpfcms.UUCP>
Reply-To: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley friesen)
Organization: Pacesetter Systems Inc., Sylmar, CA
Lines: 83

In article <45200003@hpfcms.UUCP> bill@hpfcms.UUCP (bill) writes:
>
>Being a Christian, I thought I'd contribute my point of view on this.
>
Being a Christian myself, I think I will add my comments, before
someone assumes Bill talks for all Christians.

>Christianity does not stop with personal experiences or feelings.  It
>certainly encompasses this, but it goes further.  Biblical Christianity
>(as opposed to that form which is based upon the Bible, supplemental
>"experiences", and the like) addresses all of life - personal experiences,
>feelings, your relationship with God, and your physical interaction with
>the world around you.  There is absolutely no way that a Christian can
>believe in God without that belief permeating all that is associated with
>the person.

	O.K, I agree so far.
>
>The bitter conflicts occur for one simple reason.  Science attempts to
>explain things via concrete, understandable, conceivable, and believable
>means.  Christianity recognizes such things, but is not afraid (or ashamed)
>to attribute things to powers that are above, beyond, and not capable of
>being understood by, us.  Science, by its very nature, refutes the
>existence of a God, or, at the very least, limits His power to the
>provable and understandable.  Examples:
>
	Now I disagree, science and Christianity(or at least the Bible)
address different sets of questions. The Bible is concerned with the
relationships of man to man and man to God. Science is concerned with
the causes of events *within* the structure of the Universe. Science
does not refute the existence of God, it merely says that since He is
outside the structure of the Universe, He is not a matter to be considered
by science. That is science simply has nothing to say on the issue.

>    Man is ultimately responsible for his own fate.
>    vs.
>    God is ultimately responsible for everything's fate, including man's.
>
	Even within Christianity there is this thing called free-will,
which I consider equivilant to being responsible(at least in part) for
my own fate. Remember also that science only deals with the Universe,
and within that framework we *do* determine our own fate.

>    Man evolved from other, lower life forms.
>    vs.
>    God created man, just as he created all other life forms.
>
	Again, not a real conflict. The first statement is a statement
of a *process*, like the statement "Cars are made on assembly lines",
that is it is a scientific statement. The second statement is a
statement of a relationship, like "Ford Motors makes cars". Thus they
are talking about different things and can *both* be true, just like
both statements about cars are true.

>How can there help but be bitter conflicts?  Scientific theories such as
>these (remember, they're just hypotheses) directly oppose what we as
>Christians read to be true in the Word of God - the Bible.
>
	No they don't, science and the Bible are not even talking
about the same things, so the statements are not even comparible!
The Bible should be read as what it is, a book about the relationships
of man to his creator written in simple, colloquial language so that
all may understand. It is *not* a science text, if it attempted to be
scientifically accurate at all points it would be entirely
incomprehensible to everyone, but especially to the pre-scientific
cultures to which it was originally written.

>One last point.  This notestring has been discussing how all laws and
>other absolute truths are but good hypotheses.  Thus, nothing is absolute -
>it just hasn't been contradicted yet.  Well, in a Christian's life, there
>ARE absolute truths.  Since basic beliefs state that the Bible is the 
>Word of God, what's written there must be absolutely true, having been
>written by the only One who knows it all!
>
	But He had to write it so we could understand it! Also He
didn't write it, He merely inspired the various authors to write it,
each in thier own idiom and style.
-- 

				Sarima (Stanley Friesen)

{trwrb|allegra|cbosgd|hplabs|ihnp4|aero!uscvax!akgua}!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen
or {ttdica|quad1|bellcore|scgvaxd}!psivax!friesen