Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site spp2.UUCP Path: utzoo!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!trwrb!trwspp!spp2!jhull From: jhull@spp2.UUCP (Jeff Hull) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: uc divestment Message-ID: <585@spp2.UUCP> Date: Fri, 10-May-85 20:11:46 EDT Article-I.D.: spp2.585 Posted: Fri May 10 20:11:46 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 12-May-85 13:11:22 EDT References: <2054@sdcc6.UUCP> <578@spp2.UUCP> <1447@sdcc7.UUCP> Reply-To: jhull@spp2.UUCP (Jeff Hull) Followup-To: ca.politics,net.politics Distribution: na Organization: TRW, Redondo Beach CA Lines: 119 Keywords: apartheid, intellectual honesty, fairness Xref: dcdwest ca.politics:120 net.politics:7108 Summary: Discuss all sides of an issue. this article *ME* > article <1447@sdcc7.UUCP> li63sfh@sdcc7.UUCP (Philip Kao{|stu) >>article <578@spp2.UUCP> jhull@spp2.UUCP (Jeff Hull) *ME* >>>article <2054@sdcc6.UUCP> ix913@sdcc6.UUCP (Q Van Brink) >>> >>> WHY DISINVEST? >>> >>>South Africa is a country with twenty million Africans (72% of the >>>population), four and a half million Whites (16%), three million >>>Coloureds (9%)and 800,000 Asians (3%). Yet, the Coloureds andAsians >>>have only minimal civil right and the 72% African majority are >>>stripped of all basic Human rights. They cannot vote, buy or sell >>>land, live or work where they choose, or move about freely in their >>>own country. Only the Whites enjoy full rights of citizenship. >>>This is apartheid. >> >>QvB thus implies that the Whites, Coloureds, & Asians are foreigners >>in South Africa. At what point does a person cease being a foreigner? >>How many generations does it take? According to an Encyclopaedia >>Brittanica (Oh, God, they're the enemy aren't they? Dare I trust them >>to be accurate? :-), the present black population of South Africa is >>just as foreign to the region as are the other groups. > >Jeff, you seem to be a bit sarcastic and maybe a little bit >too literal here. >probably Q Van Brink was implying that whites, coloureds, and asians >are the minority groups in south africa. i believe that zenophobia >classifies foreigners as minorities. Phillip, QvB doesn't imply whites, coloureds & asians are minority groups in South Africa; he states it explicitly. To the best of my knowledge, there is no such word as zenophobia, perhaps you mean xenophobia (fear & hatred of strangers or foreigners). If so, what does that have to do with being a minority (less than half)? >>>In order to demonstrate our resolve, the members of the Coalition for >>>a Free South Africa have been sitting in at the Winnie Mandela >>>Library and holding teach-ins and debates to educate the campus and >>>community at large. >>I challenge this statement. You are not trying to educate anybody. >>You are trying to sway people to your point of view, which is a >>totally different thing. If you were truly convinced of the >>correctness of your position, you would be content to provide all the >>facts regarding the situation & let others make their own decisions >>rather than try to propagandize us. > >if teach-ins are swaying people's opinion, then what are debates? >aren't we trying to inform people of news in south africa ??? >maybe we should call them forums, since that is really what they >are. Both teach-ins (as I know them) & debates, provide at least a modicum of information about more than 1 side of an issue. Ideally, they provide enough information for an outsider (me) to understand the basic position of each party to an issue & why each feels as he does. I have seen no attempt to provide information about the position of the South African government, any of the companies that invest in South Africa, any information about the various Marxist states in the southern part of Africa & their policies toward South Africa (or toward their own populations, which is at least as important. cf Robert Mugabe) or, in fact, anything except unsupported statements that "they are bad guys & we want to punish them." Now, Africa & things African are not my major interest in life; I am quite uneducated about what is going on there now. But I recognize diatribe & propaganda when I hear it. & I hear it. How about some information instead. Yes, I read Newsweek, Time, & US News & World Report. No, I do not watch TV news nor read newspapers. I occasionally watch MacNeil-Lehrer, Meet the Press, & Face the Nation. Next question. >>Why not undertake a constructive action for a change? > >okay we're all ears. So now you want me to do your planning for you. Ok. Start with my suggestions above (i.e., acquire a basic working knowledge of the history of the area & begin to distribute same), then dig into the socio-dynamics of African tribal life & the contemporary politics of South Africa & the 4(?) countries that border her & the 2 countries(?) that she surrounds & some basic international politics. Now you will be able to understand the answers when you start writing the US Department of State asking questions & any suggestions you may make will, at least, be listened to because you will demonstrate some understanding of the subject. In parallel, have some of your members either buy stock in the companies who invest in South Africa or otherwise acquire proxies. Attend the annual stockholders meeting & get some time on the agenda. To this meeting, take a plan for affirmative action in South Africa. This plan should be *carefully* formulated & include elements tailored to control & adapt to all factors identified in your initial study (outlined above). It *must* include a cost estimate, both of the plan itself & of failure to implement the plan. Remember, the Board of Directors is responsible to the stockholders *TO MAKE A PROFIT*. To get them on your side, you have only to show them that a plan is cost effective. Don't ask them to do it because it is right! They may or may not respond to such a plea. Put your ideas to them in *their* language; show them it is to their advantage to do what you want them to do. I strongly recommend reading several books on military tactics, especially as applied to social & commercial situations; A Book of Five Rings by Musashi Miyamoto; The Art of War by Sun Tzu; On Guerilla Warfare by Mao Tse Tung; Guerilla War by Che Guevara; On War by von Clauswitz. Learn what these masters have to teach about how to get others to do what you want them to. Do not make the mistake of believing that I am directing you to violence here; I am not. I am suggesting to you that there are certain basic principles that can be applied to any situation to direct the resolution to suit you. Use them. -- Blessed Be, Jeff Hull {decvax,hplabs,ihnp4,scdrdcf,ucbvax} 13817 Yukon Ave. trwrb!trwspp!spp2!jhull Hawthorne, CA 90250 34o3'15" N by 118o14'28" W