Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site dciem.UUCP Path: utzoo!dciem!mmt From: mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: Re: Re: Problems with libertarianism.:"coercion" re to jj Message-ID: <1551@dciem.UUCP> Date: Mon, 20-May-85 21:36:29 EDT Article-I.D.: dciem.1551 Posted: Mon May 20 21:36:29 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 21-May-85 02:10:45 EDT References: <485@cybvax0.UUCP> <2380007@acf4.UUCP> <515@cybvax0.UUCP> <1854@topaz.ARPA> <617@whuxl.UUCP> <1899@topaz.ARPA> Reply-To: mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) Organization: D.C.I.E.M., Toronto, Canada Lines: 55 Summary: I don't know whether this response belongs in politics.theory, but it belongs in something.theory, and the original was in politics, so here goes: >The existence of enforceable speed limits helps prevent the minority >from threatening the lives of others and helps the majority to >avoid the temptation to say "while I know speeding is dangerous on the >whole, it is allright for me in this case, especially as I am in a great >hurry". > >The effect of such speed limits in preventing highway deaths is >demonstrated by the drastic falloff in traffic deaths after the >passage of the 55 mile per hour speed limit. > > tim sevener whuxl!orb After a month driving mostly in Germany, without speed limits most of the 8000 km (5000 miles in USA), I don't believe what Tim says. The main reason for highway deaths is bad driving, and in particular, being where you shouldn't be (usually in the left lane of an expressway). Germany is experimenting with speed limits on certain sections of the autobahn (most of which is without speed limits). Driving behaviour on those sections is different from that on the unlimited parts, and looks more like N. American behaviour (which I previously believed to be due to bad driver education). On the unlimited sections, it is easy and comfortable to cruise at 160 kph (100 mph in USA), although most of the slower traffic seems to go at about 130-140. At 160 you can usually cruise in the left lane of a 4-lane highway or the middle of a 6-laner, but you keep a good eye out for someone coming up fast behind you, and get out of the way in plenty of time. As a result, there is almost no passing on the right, and few situations where you need to "think fast". In contrast, when there is a speed limit, cars tend to travel around 20-40 kph over the speed limit, at about the same speed in both lanes, and thus many people feel no need to move over for someone who might want to go (illegally) faster. This causes the speeders to pass on the right, in the N. American manner. Complex situations can develop rapidly, causing accidents. I have seen no statistics on accident rates in limited as opposed to unlimited sections of comparable quality of highway, but my personal experience says that they are much more frequent on the sections with speed limits. The numbers are small enough that they could just be a statistical anomaly, though. On the other hand, I personally feel MUCH safer at 160 on an unlimited highway than at 130 with a speed limit of 100 (i.e. normal traffic speed). Of course, you couldn't have such rules when most of the cars on the road are N. American, because the car must be stable and precise in its handling at those speeds. -- Martin Taylor {allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt {uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsri!dciem!mmt