Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site mtx5b.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!vax135!ariel!mtx5b!mat From: mat@mtx5b.UUCP (Mark Terribile) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: reply to Micha Berger, about 'throwing stones' Message-ID: <1417@mtx5b.UUCP> Date: Sat, 18-May-85 02:00:23 EDT Article-I.D.: mtx5b.1417 Posted: Sat May 18 02:00:23 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 19-May-85 00:26:06 EDT References: <2075@sdcc6.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ Lines: 80 >> While Jesus acknowledged that the Jews were 'right' about religion > >What? Jesus said nothing of the sort. He continually accused the Jews >(the Pharisees and Saducees mainly) of being hypocrites and sons of the >devil. He said they were blind leading the blind. (John 8:44) Jess also followed the Law as set forth in the Torah, while urging us to a higher standard. And the Lord's Prayer is a typically Jewish prayer. If Jesus did not believe that the things that the Law of Moses teaches are important, why did He tell us to pray in that manner, and for those things? >> Jesus teaches that God accepts the man who does recognize and >> help his 'neighbor', even if he is mistaken in his theology. > >That's what Jesus taught? No way. Christ clearly says in John 15:5, "I >am the vine, you are the branch; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he >bears much fruit; for APART FROM ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING." Remember that first Jesus told us to love God completely, and then to love our neighbor as ourself. These are the essential commandments. The Good Samaritan is mistaken in his flawed theology, but in loving his neighbor he has followed God's requirements. ``he who abides in Me and I in him ..." ... what does this mean? Does it mean the most complete theology, the best learning? Or does it mean the taking of God's Law and His will into our hearts? Remember when Jesus and the disciples came across a man casting out devils in Jesus' name? The disciples sought to silence the fellow. Jesus told them not to, because the man was doing good works in the name of God. > Christ says in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man > comes to the Father but by Me." Not by good works and mistaken theology, > but by the atoning death of Jesus Christ. Christ makes it perfectly clear > in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son > that whosoever should *BELIEVE* in Him should not perish but have everlasting > life." Where do you see in this that what you believe is not important? > But is it necessary that those for whom the sacrifice is offered should know of it? Haven't you prayed for someone, and not told them? Wouldn't you be blowing a trumpet for yourself if you did? But keeping the prayer between yourself and God doesn't diminsish its value, does it? Remember, John was writing for the Greeks, for whom knowledge and logical principle were all important. That is why John begins ``In the beginning there was the Word, and the Word was with God, and ...''. >> -- all these things I have made are mine -- then, where shall you build my >> temple?" And He answers, "I look upon the one who is humble and contrite in >> spirit, and who trembles at my word." So there is the Temple of the Lord. > Christ very clearly did not teach a gospel of 'good works' and he warned > specifically (Mathew 7:22) that people would come to Him at the end times > and list off all of their good deeds. Christ's response is simple and to > the point. "And I will declare to them I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, > YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS." As usual, I am in the office waiting on a Make while netnewsing, and I'm at work, with no references here, but I seem to recall that this passage also talks about how the important works are the corporal works of mercy, about how when we see someone starving or naked it is really Christ whom we must see in that way. The strict warning is that simply doing good things is not enough ... the fear of punishment or the knowledge that this is your duty is not enough. The right thing must be done for the right reason: the love of God and of the fellow that God has placed you here with. Getting tied up with the idea that knowledge is Salvation can lead you off to gnosticism. Getting tied up with the idea that all you need to do is get enough good deed points on your scorecard will lead you in the direction of the Pharisees that Jesus condemned. You must have the right reasons, and then you must act on them. Knowledge will avail you nothing ... in fact it inreases your obligation. ``Much will be demanded of him to whom much has been given.'' -- from Mole End Mark Terribile (scrape .. dig ) mtx5b!mat ,.. .,, ,,, ..,***_*.