Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site sfmag.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!samet From: samet@sfmag.UUCP (A.I.Samet) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: Controlling one's ([homo]sexual) urges and Halakha Message-ID: <572@sfmag.UUCP> Date: Sun, 19-May-85 15:14:32 EDT Article-I.D.: sfmag.572 Posted: Sun May 19 15:14:32 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 20-May-85 00:10:25 EDT References: <411@oakhill.UUCP> <564@sfmag.UUCP> <1672@cornell.UUCP> <1594@aecom.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Summit, NJ Lines: 59 > Why is it that other sins that require a punishment as harsh as that > that of homosexuality are looked upon with much greater indulgence > nowadays? ... The above writer has submitted several articles with the apparent purpose of advocating indulgence towards those practicing homosexuality, arguing that the Torah might allow for such a view. In fact, this view is clearly and totally antithetical to the Torah. Debating a position which is totally bankrupt and without merit serves to desensitize readers to the fact of its basic absurdity and serves as propaganda for its proponents. (Thus, the "debate" over the past decade over "Palestinian rights" has served to obscure the true nature of the PLO and to desensitize people to the shocking nature of Arab terrorism.) However, since Eliyahu Teitz has fallen into the trap of comparing homosexuality with chilul shabbos I feel compelled to object. The so-called "Gay rights" movement is a relatively recent phenomenon in Jewish history, whereas widespread chilul shabbos has been the unfortunate status quo for some generations. At the time when a breach of the Torah first rears its head this is viewed as a "pritzus geder" or breaking of fences. The appropriate response at such a time is to make all efforts to plug the new hole in the dam, and hopefully to stem the tide of defection from the Torah before the dam collapses. Generations ago, chilul shabbos was met with strong communal sanctions. Today, this is impractical as a means of rectifying what has already occured. Furthermore, most non shabbos-observant Jews are not actively casting off yiddishkeit. They are unfortunate heirs to a climate of irrelegiosity and they have little or no idea what shabbos and Torah are about. Little purpose would be served by ostracizing them from the Jewish community. Homosexuality is quite different. It represents not only a major perversion of Jewish life, but a major violation of what non-Jews have until recently accepted as a normal lifestyle. The attempts by the media and liberal groups to portray this abomination as a viable/normal option for living is a serious attack which threatens to corrupt all of society, Jews included. The appropriate response to this attack is to make clear to everyone who cares that this is definitely out of bounds from the Torah's viewpoint. We should wage war against this serious social disease and against the fools and reshoim who attempt to soften the social sanctions which were always in place, among decent Jews and non-Jews. The Mishna in Sanhedrin equates someone attempting a homosexual act with an attempted rapist or murderer, and permits us to intervene by killing the perpetrator. This is in no way comparable with a case of chilul shabbos and suggests that Eliyau's reasoning is off the mark. Yitzchok Samet