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From: hsu@cvl.UUCP (Dave Hsu)
Newsgroups: net.startrek
Subject: Re: Re: Enterprise vs. "The Death Star"
Message-ID: <436@cvl.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 14-May-85 23:49:42 EDT
Article-I.D.: cvl.436
Posted: Tue May 14 23:49:42 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 16-May-85 20:34:32 EDT
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Organization: Computer Vision Lab, U. of Maryland, College Park
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> > /* libation to line-eater */
> > 
> > "Fascinating, Captain.  It's some sort of tractor beam.
> > They have drawn us inside their fighter squadrons, inside
> > their defensive screens, and even inside their hull.
> > These tactics are most interesting."
> > -- 
> > -- Jay Reynolds Freeman (Schlumberger Palo Alto Research)
>  
> I'm not too sure how the Enterprise would fare against the Death Star.
> It's one large mother and, allegedly, armed to the teeth.  It also
> has screens for repelling attack from any large ship (that's how the
> X-Wings got in...they're small.  Remember, though, even they encountered
> turbulance coming through.) Would they repell the Enterprise?
> 
> Also, remember they do have some moderately big guns for defense against
> large ships.  These were not effective against the little fighters, so
> they sent out TIE fighters to "destroy them ship by ship." (or something
> like that.)
>  
> Of course, how big is the Enterprise, compared with the big ships of the
> Empire?  Is it bigger than the Millenium Falcon?  That's my only grumble
> about Star Wars (It became a little clearer in the subsequent movies):
> --
> "So I call to your heart..."                Peter Merchant

Okay...to address them in reverse order, you have my input now:

The Enterprise is slightly larger than a rebel cruiser such as the one
seen at the end of The Empire Strikes Back.  By comparison, the millenium
falcon would just fit in the shuttlebay, while a ordinary star destroyer
is perhaps twice the size.  A rebel capital ship such as Mon Mothma's
command vessel is substantially larger, as is the Super Star Destroyer.
And we all know that the super star destroyer, when it plunged into the
surface of the new death star, looked much like a toothpick plunging into
the surface of an orange.  Both Death Stars were HUGE.

As for shielding, the obvious advantage goes to the Death Star.  Note that
the Enterprise's shielding could only survive a few phaser/disruptor blasts,
and while the nav. deflectors could move small rocks and debris from its
path, it could not survive a direct hit from, say, a good sized meteorite.

The old Death Star was shielded against all but the smallest ships.  A
shuttlecraft could penetrate and remain undetected for some time, but
larger ships were unable to.  It is apparent that Imperial shielding 
technology had advanced substantially by the time of the Death Star 2;
the small bunker unit with the not-too-unreasonable-big dish had
enough power not only to cover the entire Death Star, but it could also
prevent small ships from penetrating.  Its effectiveness was proven when
the lead two x-wings were demolished after ramming it (they were unable
to pull up in time.  If you don't remember seeing this, read the book.)
Against such shielding, a shuttlecraft would be useless.

In addition, the Death Stars when fully operational were shielded against
energy beams except where they would interfere with a critical operation.
Examples include energy weapons and control towers, where shielding would
be self-defeating.  Observe that the rebel commander noted the uselessness
of lasers against the port.  Although the phaser is a more advanced unit
in that it also packs the punch of particle-beam weapons (re: the horrid
Spaceflight Chronology) the Death Stars were also particle shielded, 
except for that vent.  Whether or not phasers would be effective against
this combination is relatively inconsequential; their fire rate would require
substantial time to knock out all the Death Star's emplacements.

To counter those who argue about the Death Stars apparent lack of armament,
I offer the Ion Cannon.  This relatively small device was used in TESB
with enough force to deflect and seriously damage a Star Destroyer.
Although the Enterprise is substantially shielded for a ship its size,
a direct hit by such a unit would be crippling.  Clearly the Enterprise
would need to do some serious dodging.

And now...for the obvious incompatibilities which would turn the above
tables:

1) Supra-light travel.  The tracking technology does not exist in Star
   Wars.  Observe that no accurate tracking can be done at these speeds,
   but navigation is possible with careful calculation BEFOREHAND.  So
   although the Empire has enough firepower to blast the Enterprise out
   of existence, it is possible she has enough speed to run circles around
   them.  Of course, flying around the Death Star takes some time, and
   the Enterprise could not effectively aim either at a stationary object
   while at warp-speed.  In fact, phaser operation is not possible at
   warp-speed on the new Enterprise because the cooling units have been
   ducted through the warp drive.  The phasers cause much more drain
   than any other weapon, and are the Enterprise's main weaponry in ALL
   situations.  Translation: Enterprise runs away successfully, but can
   only conduct hit-and-run combat.  Cloaking may help some, but wiping
   out the Death Star would take A LOT of time.  And a lot of fuel.

2) Enterprises firepower.  I think it is clear that when they say the
   Enterprise can devastate a planet, they mean that it can obliterate
   life from the surface, and cause substantial damage.  Unless she
   overloads the engines and kamikazes, she cannot 'explode' a planet.
   The effectiveness of her weapons are in doubt against the Death Star.

3) Firing intervals.  The Enterprise has a rather limited fire rate when
   compared to the Death Star's surface armament.  However, the Enterprise
   would be relatively immune to ordinary TIE fire.  Reason: Star Wars
   weaponry is predominantly laser, with some 'bolts' in between.  The
   Federation developed the phaser because of the relative ineffectiveness
   of the laser against 'modern' shielding.  In return, however, the phaser
   has substantial cooling requirements.  Thus, the necessity of the
   ion cannon.  Without it, we have a standoff, more or less, between a huge
   impenetrable hulk, and a small, impenetrable flea.  Of course, ramming the
   Enterprise would cure that.

Enough...I have typed too much.  Verdict: slight edge to Death Star.  All
other scenarios depicted lead to near standoff.  Peruse and reply.

-dave

David Hsu	Computer Vision Laboratory, University of Maryland
hsu@cvl.arpa	College Park, MD 20742