Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site burl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!geoff From: geoff@burl.UUCP (geoff) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: ``they'' vs *US* Message-ID: <690@burl.UUCP> Date: Mon, 13-May-85 15:40:46 EDT Article-I.D.: burl.690 Posted: Mon May 13 15:40:46 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 14-May-85 20:12:14 EDT References: <385@ttidcc.UUCP> <305@mhuxr.UUCP> <327@h-sc1.UUCP> <2473@randvax.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Technologies, Burlington NC Lines: 59 > > And now that we've tied up all our energy in useless discussions on > words, there are a couple of people who are making the outrageous and > dangerous claims that: > 1. White men are being discriminated against, and this deserves at > least as much attention as discrimination against women. > 2. It is wrong for women to be proud when they manage to overcome > discrimination. > 3. Wearing ``provocative'' clothing is somehow responsible for > (at least some) rape. > > Come on, people: WAKE UP! > > -Ed Hall > decvax!randvax!edhall As a matter of fact, I would make two of those claims (although the second is qualified a bit). 1) discrimination is discrimination. For any given individual, all that matters is whether he or she is discriminated against. I oppose affirmative action on exactly those grounds. Take an especially close look at minorities when hiring/promoting -- make sure they are not being overlooked, discriminated against, etc.-- but choose the candidate most qualified. Only that is fair for the individuals involved (and best for the business as well). 2) no particular argument, although I think you should be proud of what you as a person did, rather than how you fit in some arbitrary subclass of humanity. I really could care less about what white men have done in the past. I accept no pride for their accomplishments -- nor blame for their wrongdoing. I am responsible for what I have done. (This is not 100% true -- I feel a bit of pride when USA athletes do well in some meet or my football team wins, so perhaps this could be extended {it doesn't matter a bit the color or sex of the individual who did well, though; as a Miami Dolphin fan I cheered the efforts of Mark Clayton and Mark Duper (who are black) as much as those of Dan Marino (who is white)}). 3) provocative clothing probably is a contributing factor to rape. I don't have any facts to back it up, it is just a gut feeling. It certainly does not make the woman 'responsible' for the rape in any way, and it certainly does not justify the rapist at all, but there probably is a correlation. Women should not wear provacative clothing in places where the probability of rape is higher unless they are willing to risk it. I wish this were not so, but I am not real fond of gravity, either. It still influences my actions. Rape happens. This is a given. Maybe society will change to lesson this threat and maybe it won't. I am not enough of an egotist to believe that I have the answers to these problems (or that everyone would listen to be if I did). Women are affected much more by this threat than men. This is also a given. Hence to avoid rape a given individual can be most effective by taking precautions. Rape will still happen in the world, and that is regrettable, but you can at least try to make sure that it doesn't happen to YOU. geoff sherwood Discussion appreciated. Flame deplored (we are adults, aren't we?).