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From: jamcmullan@wateng.UUCP (Judy McMullan)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: being proud to be a woman
Message-ID: <2386@wateng.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 14-May-85 15:14:56 EDT
Article-I.D.: wateng.2386
Posted: Tue May 14 15:14:56 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 15-May-85 00:35:40 EDT
References: <2148@decwrl.UUCP>
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 43

Whoa! I just want to get it clear (since I am being quoted out of context in a
couple of articles) that I do *not* think that a woman must express disdain
for men to feel pride in being a woman. I was pointing out how rare it is for
any women to crow about being a woman *instead* of a man:

	>						... and only when an
	>individual woman is able to ignore societal expectations about her
	>status can she become obnoxious in her woman-pride.
	>Some women HAVE managed to express disdain for men and made
	>declarations that they are glad to be women. These "castrating bitches"
	>are quickly condemned (and pointed to as "typical feminists").
	>I'd love to see the day when both women and men are seen as a little
	>weird for showing excessive pride in the accomplishments of members of
	>their own sex.

Notice -- I said "obnoxious in her woman-pride". I do not think it is healthy
for someone to denigrate the other sex (as too many men do -- being called a
"girl" or a "woman" or a "c*nt" is an insult).

My dictionary defines "proud" as "haughty; properly self-respecting". I think
Dave Canzi's definition of pride (which started this discussion) is "haughty".
I don't think much of that sort of pride -- with its implications of superiority
over everyone else. I *do* believe both women and men should have self-respect. 

I enjoy the special aspects of being a woman -- my sexuality; my special
relationship with my male lover; I look forward to having a child of my own; I
like the shape of my body. In that sense, I am proud to be a woman.

However, I suspect if I had been born a man I wouldn't be sitting around
yearning to be a woman -- I would be enjoying my ability to open jars of
jam without running them under the hot water tap. :-)

In other words, being proud to be a woman does not mean one must put down men.
The example above (which people have quoted a small bit of) is one where the
"pride" is an emotion all tangled up with hatred.

(Again, that answers Dave's original query. Men who are proud of other men are
seen as "haughty" -- feeling superior. Women who are proud of other women are
not seen as feeling superior because it is so rare in our society. Thus, they
are seen as feeling self-respect -- being happy to be women.)

   --from the sssstickkky keyboard of JAM
   ...!{ihnp4|clyde|decvax}!watmath!wateng!jamcmullan