Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site sphinx.UChicago.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!beth From: beth@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (beth d. christy) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Re: \"Why not send the men home?\" Message-ID: <480@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> Date: Sun, 12-May-85 17:56:38 EDT Article-I.D.: sphinx.480 Posted: Sun May 12 17:56:38 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 16-May-85 08:24:11 EDT References: <1848@decwrl.UUCP> <423@sftri.UUCP> <1467@reed.UUCP>, <431@sftri.UUCP> Organization: U. Chicago - Computation Center Lines: 85 From: mom@sftri.UUCP (Mark Modig), Message-ID: <431@sftri.UUCP>: > > > My sister has a theory, which I find thought-provoking. She says, > > > (and I have seen elsewhere) that better than 95% of violent crimes > > > are committed by males; females are more likely to be victims. > > ... > > > a curfew. My sister contends that a curfew for men should be > > > instituted as this would drastically reduce violent crime. > > > let men out when willingly accompanied by a woman. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > Joanne Munson >[...] >> = Ellen Eades >> >> I think Mark is trying to inject a little levity here (I'm not >> quite sure). However... >> >Actually, I was trying to inject a little more levity by proposing >an (absurd) conclusion as a result of, in my opinion, and equally >absurd suggestion. > >[....] >> My conclusion: I'm not sure what should be done with men, or >> if there's really anything that can/should "be done," but >> I'm learning to defend myself verbally, passively, aggressively, >> and with whatever means comes to hand. >> >You know what really burns me about this whole thing? The original >proposal that started this whole thing was made (I assume) in all >seriousness. Yet it is (at least, to me) absurd. Yet there has not >even been one article in this group authored by a woman that treats >this proposal as anything other than serious. The article I'm >replying to refers to "doing something" with men. Is this what you >people really feel? Do you women all really feel SERIOUSLY that >such a curfew would be a good idea, or at least worth trying? I >haven't seen anything said that would lead me to believe anything to >the contrary. How would you all like it if a group of men started >an apparently serious discussion on the net proposing >that women who are raped are "asking for it"?? You probably wouldn't >like that too much, and if you take that feeling and look at it, >maybe you can begin to see a bit how I feel about this whole thing. > >Mark Modig >ihnp4!sftri!mom Mark, you're trying to get us to see the ridiculousness of suggesting a curfew for men by asking how we'd feel "if a group of men started an apparently serious discussion on the net proposing that women who are raped are 'asking for it'". You're right, we'd be pretty d... pissed. In fact, we *are* pretty d... pissed, because, although it isn't posted to net.women, men *do* propose that very thing. Why didn't you just ask how we'd feel if men started an apparently serious discussion proposing that women be subject to a curfew? Is it because earlier in the dis- cussion it was stated that men (and Phyllis Schlafly's) *do* propose such a thing? Women are the *victims* here, and the best suggestion that men have come up with is "if you don't want to be hassled, don't go anywhere where men might hassle you." Sensible enough. Unfortunately, *they* mean for *us*, the victims, to live under curfew. Well, we're getting ready to take they're sensible advice. But we'd like a little better arrangement, thank you. We'd like for the *offenders* to live under curfew, and *then* we won't go where they are. We'll go out and party and not be afraid to do what we enjoy. We have not done anything wrong, and we don't want to pay for the offenses of others. If there has to be a curfew, why not set it up so more offenders than victims pay? Why *not* make the men pay more than the women? After all, they contribute more to the problem. What's that? You don't want to live under curfew either? It upsets you to think that *you* might have to pay for someone else's offenses? Well, no offense intended Mark, but GOOD! That means there's only one step left. If I may borrow your own words: "if you take that feeling and look at it, maybe you can begin to see a bit how I feel about this whole thing." Once we understand each other, once you feel *outraged* that people who have done *nothing* wrong have to pay for the actions of some real jerks, then maybe we can work together so *no* innocent people pay. Until such time, however, yes, I think women seriously want more offenders than victims to be penalized. Sorry if that's a problem for you. -- --JB "The giant is awake." Disclaimer? Who wud claim dis?